Reem Mousa | Finding Your Spiritual Path Through Creating

The publishing for profit podcast is brought to you by ghostwriters. Incode earned more money by publishing better content and learn how do we increase your thought leadership. So you can build your brand head over to ghostwriters and code.com for more information that’s ghostwriters and go.com. And now your host, Joel Mark Harris.

Joel: Hello and welcome to the publishing for profit podcast. This is your host. Joel, Mark Harris. Today we are interviewing a very amazing and special entrepreneur. Her name is Reem Mussa. she is the founder of the pen DIA app, and she is also a writer. She has written her first book, not a follower. We talk obviously a lot about her book.

She is originally from Kuwait. She moved to Jordan and then to United States. And so the book talks about her journey, specifically her spiritual path, and where she is today. And what I really love about this book is that it takes bits and pieces from different faiths, different, spiritual groups.

And she kind of makes her own. A decision on things and she takes things that, are important to her. And then doesn’t use the stuff that she doesn’t find useful in their own practice. so, so that’s something I really connected with. So hopefully you enjoyed this, a wide-ranging conversation.

We talk about her journey, her spiritual practices and, her app and book. so hopefully enjoy this episode. Hi, Reem, and welcome to the show. Such a pleasure having you.

Rama: Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me. I’m really excited for this interview.

Joel: So I want to start off, in your childhood. Kuwait is a place I only know through, the media through movies.  I’m really interested in what it was like growing up there?

Rama:  Well, I’m a Jordanian, a lady who was born and lived in Kuwait for a few years. I had a great life, honestly, in Kuwait to a great family, my mom and dad. I was actually born in a religious family, Muslim.

My mom, she was delicious. Part of my dad was the more open-minded part. So there was some kind of balance between both of them. That it’s helped us to have the religious anchor inside ourselves. Yeah. To be more open to other ideas, which wasn’t at the certain point, easy for us. So living in Kuwait, myself, I had the greatest periods, even though if I would, Express or describe myself.

I was a very shy kid, low self-esteem. I wouldn’t talk and very sensitive, which gave my dad a hard time to raise me. I was his challenge because he looked at me and he knew that there is something inside me that is really great. And he has to work on it. And that’s when everything started from Kuwait.

My mom, she was beautiful and took  Islam to the heart. And which is, it was a grade eight. So I had to describe the hijab when I was young, I always was surrounded with a Muslim community. And I always had one question in my head, the existence of God, since I was young. And of course, like any others.

A kid, when we have this question, we go to our parents asking them about the existence of God. And, you know, especially if you are really religious and they will ask you not to even think about it. When, of course, I have to suppress this question and I had all these compilation inside my heart between.

Loving God. And if he does need to exist or is it just our imagination? And I grew up, of course, after the war, we left Kuwait and we went to Jordan and that’s when I finished my high school, then we moved to the state.

Joel: And what was your schooling like?

Rama: Oh, my God, you just went straight to the most important point in my life. The schooling system was the system creates sensitivity and low self-esteem and myself and I did not enjoy it. I felt that it was more towards a abusing system. This is how I saw it back then maybe it wasn’t that bad, but back then, they were really tough us the way they raise us and teachers.

So what that sensitive person, that’s how my low self-esteem was created in myself. And I wouldn’t even talk anymore. I was really, really shy. So I wouldn’t say I enjoyed it.

Joel: And how did it, so how did you deal with that as a kid growing up?

Rama: Honestly, I would say it wasn’t easy and I didn’t know how much it affected me, but I grew up and I had my kids and I found myself I’m always in my defensive mode towards.

The schooling system over here. So I always wanted to protect my kids and I didn’t know that was all it because what I want through when I was in school, when I was young, but it affected me when I grow up. And this is something that I had a whole chapter in my book about the, about schooling system and how I had to go back and forgive my schooling system.

Joel: Sorry, go ahead.

Rama: No, I was just going to tell you it was really challenging for myself.

Joel: So from Jordan, you moved to the States, is that correct?

Rama: I did, you know, I was going between back and forth between the state and Jordan. So, I would say, but I moved to the States on 1997, officially we moved to the States, me and my family.

We all just left Jordan and we moved to Maryland.

Joel: Okay. And what was the reason for that? And can you tell us a little bit about that entire process?

Rama: Well my dad, he applied for the green card to be. Had our immigration paper’s ready. So, my dad, he thought it will be better for us as it gets to move to the state and start our life over here and the United States.

And we love them. We love it. We love just being here. And I do feel that this is my home, you know, from a person that has been moving from a country to another, from state to another. So once I landed though, Washington, Seattle. Now I’m here in Kirkland. I just feel that I love it. I think this is home for me.

Joel: I feel the belonging to this state may not state was it a bit of a culture shock and getting used to, life in the States.

Rama: Well, I have to tell you something, since I’m a VA with all the challenges that I went through, when I was young, I was always a positive person because I’m very shy. So I learned how to adjust with anything around me because I have to accept it.

So for me, moving to the state, it was somehow me tuning in adjusting my system that, okay, I’m going to live here and I’m okay. I had such a beautiful experience, even with me wearing a hijab. I’ve heard all these stories about people that they do at his shop, and they had all these issues and challenges. I never like if, okay, well we are the creator of our own reality.

I loved it. And I’m always all the situations and all these stories and the experiences that I went through, it was just. Perfect and amazing. So I have, no, I didn’t have any culture shock. If something, I enjoyed it more.

Joel: That’s amazing. Can you tell us, so you, as a young schoolgirl, you questioned, you know, is God real and, a lot of questions around religion.

can you tell us a little bit about that spiritual journey that you took in? Where have you arrived to today?

Rama: So, since I had this question says I was the yelling. And of course, after getting married, having kids, I became so busy that the question did not really came into my mind. Very much until I left my mom and my mom passed away.

This is the time when the question popped up again in my head, but this time it was really strong that I cannot just be not winding it down or lower it. I just had to listen to my soul called. What is happening and what will happen after my mom, you know, passing away where’s health. What is her soul?

Where would it go? Because we in, I don’t know if it’s an old religion, but somehow in our religion, Islam, the way they teach us. The life, or once you are soul leaves, your body that transition. We do hear these stories that is really scary. And to me, I couldn’t connect the love of God the way they teach us about God with all these stories that I’ve been taught when I was young.

And I gained when I was young with my mom’s death. And then I’m like, okay, this is it. This is life. I lost my mom. And what are we going after this? That’s when I had to dig deeper in Islam to understand exactly what would we go after we.

Pass away and after death and there, I understood that lots of our beliefs. It is culture. It’s not very Islam. this is me and this is not my opinion that most of what we’re practicing, it’s not that in Islam, that Islam is more peaceful and more loving and more, it’s. I felt that I connected more with Islam, but from there it took me to more, to teachers as spiritual leaders.

That I’ve started attending, traveling them and learn more about the soul about God. And of course, with each step you have an intention. And with each intention, you receive an answer and with all an act with each and answer, you will have more questions, which led me. To understanding more the concept of life, soul, God, religions, unity, oneness, and of course creating all these products that I’m working on right now in my life.

Joel: Who are some of the spiritual leaders that you pay attention to today?

Rama: Oh my God. One off. I love this teacher and Joe Dispenza. He’s one of my teachers. I, love, Greg Braden, Bruce left-turn, Wayne Dyer Stewart’s while, I met actually Deepak Chopra. I met quite few of these teachers. I was really blessed to meet them. One-on-one to know me and to teach me more how to evolve in my, in my career and in my spiritual path.

Joel: So this led you to write a book, not a follower. Can you tell us a little bit about that book and what inspired you to write it?

Rama: You know what? I like your questions, because if I would say something, if I would explain where I’m going, I would start first with the boat before any other product, because I did start with the book while I was attending all these workshops. God will just the universe when just provide me with all these unexpected challenges and stories. And every time I would just go and tell my friends how this workshop one and what did I learn? They will always send me, Oh my God. Maybe you have to just try it out book because of the way you.

You know, present your story. It’s just so fun that we can see it in a book unlike. No, I don’t really think I’m a book writer, so we just dismiss it. I’m not going to write it, but one time I was in Australia and attending one of your dispenses workshops when I saw a vision about a book. And I’m like, okay.

I think it’s about time then Joe Dispenza met me and he told me the same thing. He is lucky for him. I think. You have to write a book. So I’m like, okay, maybe the book is the thing. So I came back. I started actually, I think the book on my way back to Seattle in their plane, the first chapter and I arrived and I started writing more about the money journey and the teachers I’ve met in my life.

When I met, then this lady. She’s an editor and an author. And I asked her to few of the chapters of my book and she told me, you know what 30 am. Yeah. It’s a great book, but it’s a normal, doesn’t something big deal about it. So I listened to it. I’m like, you know what you might be. Right. So let me go don’t mind meditation and ask.

Put an unexpected ending for this book, which is, it was the Pantagea app. It was unexpected, you know, out that I would come up with.

Joel: Can you, so can you tell us a little bit about the app and, Well, yeah, I guess the, how did you build it? Cause it’s not everyday that somebody comes along and just decides to build an app and make it a reality. So if you could just tell us a little bit about that process. That would be great.

Rama:  I would say it was a challenging process. It, wasn’t an easy being a mom. And literally I did not do anything except I can get up my kids. And I would tell you, Joel, that I did not. I did not create anything like the whole envisions.

They just picked me. It’s happened that I set my intention and division just came to me. It wasn’t something that I wanted to do. It wasn’t something that I even wanted to build because it didn’t really make sense to me. You being here, you needed someone to pay for you.

Okay. Send the request and someone that you don’t really know will start sending their vibes for you. So I’m like, ah, I don’t know if I want to do it when one day I had just the idea while I was meditating, but one day I just received the whole idea, just it was in my head. I woke up at 12:30 AM and I just slept for, I think the idea and I’m like, okay, I’ve never done an app.

So I told my husband, I need your help. My husband, he’s an engineer. So I told him, I need your help. I have to do this app. And I started, but the challenging about the app, it wasn’t the idea. And me being a mom, it was that I didn’t even have the vision for it yet. I just had the information, the pieces. But non, I didn’t know.

How would it look like how would it works? So, but they never again helped me out. They just pick the team and zoom, it played a big role in this because we built the whole app through zoom. Our developers used to live in space. Again, my designer is in Turkey, my managers and the people who’s taken care of the whole app they’re in Toronto.

And I live here in Seattle. We did not meet them except on Zoom. So this is how we build the app. We were, I believe the first it’s company before the whole pandemic started, we started using Zoom to build our own company and it works. Beautifully. It, it wasn’t feeling challenging from that aspect, but the challenge was me getting out of my comfort zone, every single step, learning more terms, the technology, how it works, that wasn’t easy, but it was worth it.

Joel: You describe yourself as being very shy as a kid, but yet now you’re building apps, you’re writing books, right? What, was there a shift or what changed that allowed you to take that next step outside of your comfort zone?

Rama: I have a sentence that I always say it to everyone. If you understand the spirituality of value, well, you have to be a successful person.

And I believe that I understood what the universe would hand us and how much I deserve. And I worked, I don’t this, I believe that I deserve everything. And I loved myself because I was a shy person and a very low self-esteem. One day, I remember when I was 16 before going to sleep, I started talking to myself and I said, okay, if I did not love myself enough, No one is going love me because I have to love myself.

I have to take it over myself. So it was a decision on the second day. I love myself and I started asking everyone too cool. Okay. This is really crazy, but this is how I did it. I just kept asking everyone to call me beautiful. Because I did not see it. So I had to convince them I’m beautiful. I’m more D and I love myself.

So I kept faking for some time until one day my features started changing. My look started changing and I started loving seriously myself so much that I sat in being out of my comfort zone, because once you love yourself, that’s it. You’re out of your comfort zone. But then understanding spirituality. I understood that the universe will always give me what I deserve and what I ask.

So I worked on this. I actually, I didn’t have the field was not there. It was just getting out of my comfort zone. It was really challenging. That was. That’s how I became an author and then app owner

Joel: In your book, you describe the moment where you decide not to wear the hijab anymore. Do you mind talking a little bit about that decision and how that affected you?

Rama: Yeah, actually that was, that was, I believe the first decision for me. To practice what I seriously, truly believe. It’s not what I’ve been told it. Wasn’t what I’ve been left for all my years, previous years, I just felt one day I, I started talking to myself, am I ready to take this step? Because it’s not an easy after all these years taking off his shop and I’m aware that so too many people will start judging me.

And back then I really cared about what they think of me. I cared about my, my, how would I say it? My, my people, like I cared about everyone. So, but one day I felt that said, I cannot just keep, acting like if it was okay because God did not ask me to do this. This is my belief. Now with all my spectrum, anyone that is wearing his job, I still love his job.

And it was a really beautiful part of my life, but I felt that this is not God. So if this is not God, why do I have to do it? So I took the blessing from my dad first, the blessing. So I, my dad, he was like, okay, you can do it. And then I talked to my husband about it, and these are the two people who are all as well.

I did the. I do care a lot about them. They said, yeah, you can do whatever you want. That’s when I decided to take it off and I felt the freedom. And it’s really interesting when you, I think how. Sometimes our soul just get so chapped in the way you dress up, just because what, whatever people they think of you.

And when I took it off, I felt, I felt from inside that I had the freedom back. So that’s it.

Joel: So your book is called Not a Follower. Can you tell us why you chose that title and what means?

Rama: Well, one time I was talking to my husband and I was telling him it’s really interesting to each workshop.

I go, people will ask me, how long have you been following this teacher? And I don’t know this question, just get on my nerves. And every single time I will. Tell them the same answer. I’m not a follower. I’m not a follower. So I told him, I, you’re not, I’m not a follower. I just wanted, it’d be a great student.

Then I’m like, Oh, I like this. Put a name. From my book, maybe I should use that. And then I noticed that the society does really program us to be followers. Even in social media, they will tell you, you know, how many followers do you have? And this is now what we are always focused on. How many followers do I have in my life?

So I do believe it’s about time in life, not to be a follower, to create your own path, to have your own beliefs and just to trust your to self, because we all have the answers inside ourselves. Teachers are amazing and they are great and they will teach you how to get on to your path. But at the end you have to be the leader to your path.

You cannot just be a follower of one teacher or to one group, or I love religions, but even if you have a question about religions, we do have to question because this is how we can find peace inside ourselves.

Joel: I totally agree. I think that’s really amazing. I was at a self-development workshop and at the end they were saying, you know, use what you, what will help you?

what empowers you and then discard the rest. And I think that sounds like, you know, kind of what your, your journey is like and what you practice. I think that’s very empowering. because I think it’s important that we, we don’t just take in things and just believe them because we’re told to believe them, that we questioned them.

And if we find through that, those questions that we ask that, yes, this is true, then we can follow them. But, you know, just because we take parts of it doesn’t mean we have to take the whole, you know, the whole thing. Right. So I think that’s, that’s really powerful. Definitely. I want to, yeah, to talk a little bit more about your book and, and the writing pro process and, I guess, you know, being a first book, what there must have been a lot of struggles and, and, you know, maybe some self-doubts.

Joel: Can you tell us a little bit about how, how that writing went, when you decided. the best time to write and a little bit about Oh, publishing, and that aspect of it.

Rama: Well, I started writing this book in 2016 in, 2000 end of 2017. I received the idea of the app. That’s when I decided to just stop writing the book.

I’m like, you know what? This is too much work. I don’t really have time for it. And I didn’t know what to add more. So. I decided to just to stop. I’m like, you know what? The book is dead inside my heart. And I don’t think I’m going back to that right. This book anymore. And everyone would keep asking me if what’s happening with them in my book where I am right now.

I’m like, Nope, it’s done. There are no books anymore. I’m focused more on my app. And one day on June, 2000, 19, honestly, I have to mention one thing before this, while I was writing the book, I did find actually too many challenges regarding, as you said, me writing a book and I’m not really familiar how to write a book.

And then I had this mentor that I met in one of the workshops. He was guiding me and telling me where’s my weakness in writing the book and how I should, it does require different kinds of talents. So that day I do remember because he was, was really harsh on me with his feedback, but UniMed one thing to respect all feedbacks.

And second, to have my challenge as it gets, I would always, always, always look at my challenge as my StepStone. I learned not to allow any negative words or in a negative feedback to stop me. And this is of course, with the app, with the book, with anything in my, any product that is outside. I had a really harsh by the way, feedbacks, but I didn’t want to stop.

Yeah. And I always had in my head, if I, I would regret it, they get it. So it’s always just achieve what you want. And, but it’s all dead. I’m not, anyone would read it better than just to stop and just to feed that you wish if you would just continue with it. But yet, because I was so happy with the app, I didn’t feel the care.

About the book I stopped it. I’m like, okay. It does require me to work more on myself before I go back to the book. But on June, 2019, and all of a sudden out of nowhere, I felt that I’m feeling the book again in my heart. So I’m like, okay, hold on. How come it’s like seriously, I could, you know, I felt that someone was dead and all of a sudden woke up again.

I was like, Oh my God, I feel like their book. And I learned how to understand my tuition and to connect more with my heart and to respect all the emotions and the energies that flow out of my heart. And I taught my family and my kids. I’m like, okay, hold on. I think. I’m going to go back to the book. So I went to one of, Jack Canfield.

Workshops in Oregon and Jack felt was one of the leaders also that I always wanted to meet. So I want that. I, and I went there with an intention to find a person to help me in my book. Back then I didn’t, I know that I have to supply attention to any workshops because I would always receive what I intend for.

So, well, I liked that, but I did not tell anyone that’s my intention. I’m like just there enjoying me being there. This is all what I did. I enjoyed it. When all of a sudden a lady was sitting next to me. And she’s like, okay, okay. I know that you’re writing a book. So do you have an editor or someone to help you or a ghostwriter?

I’m like, Nope. She’s like, you know what? My editor is over here. Would you like to meet her? I’m like, Oh no, this is good. But to be true, this is in my head. But it came, it was took it to be through. I met Midland. She was the person who helped me in the book. And we both together had our energy in this book. That’s why you will always feel the love while we were writing this book.

Joel:  After you finished writing the comes to publishing, can you tell me about how you published and how that felt having a book out into the world?

Rama: Actually, you know what I wanted. To have an agent to publish the book, because I’m aware that we are the creator of our own reality.

Okay. But it came to my awareness that we felt the COVID-19. So everything was shut down. And I had to do something. The book is done and I have to do something about that. That’s when I’m like, you know what, I’m just going to do self-publishing. So I hired a lady to take care of the book. they covered the design, everything.

I just told her what I’m looking for. And she did help me with this. And then I hired. Another lady to take care of marketing and the book was out and, I don’t clear weeks and it’s happened to be done and ready in the market on mother’s day. So I’m like, I could not just expect a better gift from the universe for mother’s day to have my book outsides.

Joel: That’s awesome. Okay. So the Pantagea App, who is this for? And why should somebody download it?

Rama: It’s for everyone. It’s for us to go back to our RNs. How important is our migration? Because if you. Aware of how powerful you are. You would always share this vibration with everyone. There are people outside that they do not really know anyone and they would love your support just by with the word.

Or with the vibration and science now it’s not because it’s not spirituality though anymore. Now science is approved how powerful we are as a vibration being, being, and as an energy beam being. So it’s very powerful when I ask someone to pray for me and it does really affect my energy when this person thinks of me.

So when. And I did create this. I always believed on even before even understand the energy. I also, I always believed that once you purchase someone, you do, you do really change their whole circumstances for this person. So this app, it’s all about shedding, your love. You are good thoughts with each other, elevating your emotions.

Sometimes when I’m not feeling very well, my daughters, they will just get into this app and with form a prayer for me asking me not people just to send me a love. And you know what, it’s really amazing how it does really work. It doesn’t work when someone share with me their loving vibration, it doesn’t affect me.

And I do believe it’s such a good way to teach our future. Which is our new generation, the power of their energy. And instead of just being in social media, which is it’s beautiful to share your stories, to share your pictures. Also, you can share you, in this patient’s story is, help to elevate someone’s there by patient, how to support each other just by praying for someone and there’s no religion that is related to this app. It’s free, right. Everyone to all religions or language, because we are powerful as vibrations. That’s a why, but the good thing is that you feel safe when your kids using this app, because there’s nothing to worry about. They’re there just to learn and to pray for each other.

And I think that can be really effective for our future to teach our kids, to pray for each other.

Joel: I think that’s an important point because one thing I really worry about is the younger generation growing up with social media and that being such a big influence in their lives. And so having a controlled, app where, you know, you can learn about different spiritual practices, how to behave, you know, in.

You know, I guess in a, in a manner that is, I guess appropriate. You know, I think that’s really important.

Rama: We do have, two intentions for this app. Tell you that the first one as, that we are the new generation of social media. We have to think, beyond what is now we have to think about the future and, huh.

How we’re going with social media. I am a mom. And I’m aware of all these social media and stuff that is happening. I’m not, I guess, or with, but, we cannot fight. We can just have another solution, propose our kids with a different solution just to use it. They don’t have to use it every day, but it’s there knowing that there is a different, social media.

There. And, the second thing is to innovate your energy. Once they’re in to feel that they’re energized, they’re happy, they’re learning. Then they leave. We don’t want to suck your energy. We want to feed your energy.

Joel: You mentioned a couple of times, meditation. Can you tell us a little bit about your meditation practices?

Rama: Well, as you know, since I’ve been going to too many workshops, I learned too many tools and at the end you have to create and adopt your own. Meditation. So you, listen, you take, and you have to form your own. That doesn’t really go well with your inner self that you do feel that it does do the change after you’re done.

So usually I have. To do twice meditation a day. So my first one is the minute I woke up, I do not do anything. I would, I wouldn’t even talk, I wouldn’t touch my phone. I would just have to know what time is it. And then, and it has to be early morning and then I’ll have my mask on and I will start to connecting with the earth.

I would start connecting with the infinite love with the infinite possibilities I would just do out because there are infinite for everything. And I will start showing my appreciation for this day and to creating my day from the morning, I would just lay out to the universe, all my plans for the day and ask the universe to take whatever she wants to take or wherever it wants to take and leave whatever.

Wants to leave for me to experience. And I will accept the day as, as I wouldn’t really be bothered. If something got changed or something, just show up. I would just accept it because I’m aware now that the universe is teaching me what to do during the day and at night. I would just deal with it as well.

After that everyone goes to sleep, I would like to connect with my true self, be feeling gratefulness for this day and that we are all safe and I will. Which questions for the universe. If I do have any questions, I would just put it out there and allow the members just to hand me on the answers. And, of course, but each one of us and I do use the tools that I’ve learned from Joe Dispenza, from, Wayne Dyer, from, the books that I read from sorts while this beautiful meditation is out there.

If I do feel that like just doing them, I would just use them. And if I don’t just, I just want to sit and not doing anything. I would just do it. I would just listen mainly to my energy. And what do I feel like doing today?

Joel: And you also have a podcast out called new dream with the Rheem, which I love the title, by the way, what inspired you to create that. And just tell us a little bit about your podcast.

Rama: I’m telling you everything just picks me the book. Pick me, pick me and podcasts just came to me. two of my friends that I met on while I was doing brain hacking. I met these people, he’s a tennis player who’s an author and they just came to me and they told me, you know what team we’re doing this podcast. And we would like you to be a part of it. So we did do our first one, but I felt that we were too much, too much like on the listeners. So I felt that I’m, you know what, you both are really great. I think I will be.

To, you know, teach it to three teachers at the same time. I think it would be really happy for the listeners. So I found them, you know what I think I cannot just do this with you guys for the sake of view. So maybe me being elk, it will be easier. That’s when my team Panther team they’ve been asking me all the time to create my own podcast and I just responded.

I’m like, okay. And while I was just. Talking to my Panther team, I was just laughing. I’m like, yeah, I will do my own podcast. And you deal with here. I’m like done. I like this name. Maybe I should use it. Then I’m like, okay, I want a special, what do you miss reality. Okay. Oh my God. I love this. So it wasn’t something that I was thinking about.

I was just making fun with my team, with, you know, using the names. But they just grabbed it and they start working on it. It creating, you know, the logo, the, having the people toward, behind the scene. There team that is working behind the scene behind each podcast. And, I started, you know, doing my podcast.

It was not easy as well. You thought it’s not my language, it’s not my friend’s name, but I’m enjoying it. And as I said to, you know, once you understand spirituality, you do understand that you are the creator and this is what I always try to emphasize while I was talking at the end. I will always end that, that you are loved.

You are safe and you are the creator of your future. So I would just give a few tips that the, you know, the experience that I gained while I was working on money, the stations, I just love manifested in my life. So I’m like, okay. I would just tell the people, because there’s too many teachers that are teaching manifestation already.

And. Jermaine teachers are talking about science and spirituality, so there’s everything, but there are a few apps that I use just to tweak my manifestation. So it will become plaster. So it’s just sharing experiences with users and listeners.

Joel:. So I’m going to wrap it up with this last question. And it is what is your favourite book or a book that you like to gift?

Rama: Okay. I will tell you who is my favourite author because author, I love all his books. I love Paula Crailar. also I admire his books and I loved his time. So yeah, anything that is limited to Polokwane. I love it. And there are a few books. that I do like as well, the red lion. I’m not sure if you’d have to hear of this book, then old book, it’s a beautiful book.

It talks about the journey of the spirituality and our ego and, and your book also for other Shafaq she’s a Turkish author. I just love her book 40 years of love, but it was a love. Sorry. I love her book. so I love reading. So this is something that it does the assess by myself. So,

Joel: and so who was the author of the red line?

Do you remember?

Rama: I believe her last name is actually a bit confusing to me to read it. So I asked my daughter to, you know, read it for me. I don’t know how to read her last name, but Maria, her first name is Maria.

Joel: Thank you so much for being on the itune podcast. I appreciate your time and hopefully you enjoy it.

Rama: Thank you. Thank you so much. I definitely enjoyed it and I hope our listeners will enjoy it as well, as much as we did.

Joel: And so for listeners and viewers who want to reach out, maybe learn a little bit more about your podcast, your app, your book, where can they find you?

Rama: My podcasts are literally all over the place. Spotify, iTunes, Google, you can just, wherever you go, you’re going to find my podcasts and you’re dealing with dream. Not a follower is on Amazon and on also Barnes and noble. and my app it’s on the app store, Apple, the iOS and the Android.

Joel: Thank you very much.