Julie Broad | How To Use A Book To Supercharge Your Career

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And now your host, Joel Mark Harris.

Joel: Hello, and welcome to the publishing for profit podcast. This is your host, Joel Mark Harris. We are on episode number 26 today, and we interview bestselling Amazon author, Julie broad. A book more than cashflow talks about the ins and outs of real estate investing. And really she goes back the glitz and glamour, a real estate investment, and gets at the real hard truths of the industry.

It reached number one on Amazon, over the likes of Dan Brown and Game of Thrones. She is also the recipient of the Beverly Hills book award and the top 20 under 40 awards. So some really impressive achievements there. She went from real estate investing to launching a new company called book launchers that helps authors market publish and launch their new books. So hopefully you enjoyed this episode.

Hello, Julie. Welcome to this show.

Julie: Hi, thanks for having me.

Joel: So I want to start off with your book more than cash flow. What, what prompted you to write that book and. Was it something that you’ve been, you had planned for a long time and it just sort of sprung into action or what was the exact process of that?

Julie: How long do we have? So, yeah, I mean, I’d always wanted to write a book and then as I got into real estate investing, which was, I started in 2001, but. It was kind of a journey. And a lot of things happened where, you know, I felt like following a law, a lot of the training out there, we ended up buying properties that just caused us massive grief.

We ended up with a property that I actually became a crack house and it was a known crack house. Right. We ended up getting charged with code violations and then we never actually got the notice. So we ended up having to go to court over these fire code violations and there was. It’s just all these things that happened to us.

And meanwhile, you know, in, in the 2000s, there was all these people talking about, get rich and real estate. Yeah. Woo. You know, and, and I was kind of looking around going, Hey yeah, you know, there’s money to be made, but you know, there’s a lot of mistakes that you can make doing the things you guys are teaching.

And so I really thought that a real estate book about, you know, these mistakes and how following the lessons they’re teaching you without, without really thinking certain things through can create a lot of problems. And I was living proof. And so I really thought that was a book that could be written, in 2008, which is epically bad timing.

So if I tell you to time something, do the opposite of what I tell you, but in 2008, I quit my job. I went full time into real estate investing and started building a platform. So a newsletter list and a YouTube channel and all those kind things around real estate and little bit by bit, I actually ended up in contact with a couple of different publishers that.

We’re interested in having me write a book. And so I had pitched this book idea. I had, you know, kind of the real side of real estate investing, not the, you know, who, who make money aside. And, and they kind of said, eh, no, you know, you know, there’s enough real estate. Books that are general like that out there.

So, you know, we don’t want that, but wildly actually turned around and said, you know, we’re interested in working with you. Here’s an idea that we’ve been looking for an author to write about. And I actually didn’t even really like the idea, but I thought, yeah, Hey book deal. And so I went back and forth with him for three months on this proposal.

Really assuming that this was the book deal because they had more or less approached me. And then they had turned around and given me a book idea. So I thought I was getting a book deal. but I ended up getting an email from them that said, you know, the marketing department doesn’t think you have a strong enough platform to sell books.

And so they, they, they not only had rejected my book idea, but now they were completely rejecting me. So any shred of ego I had left was shattered. and it took me a little while, like a little bit over a year to kind of recover. But a lot of things happened that made me see there really, wasn’t neat for a book that told you, Hey, you can make money in real estate, but watch out for this, think about this, be careful of this.

And I did just like, you know what, I’m just going to write this book because I think there’s somebody, even if there’s only one, there’s somebody out there that can avoid a lot of pain if they get this book. And so that was really the impetus for it was I wanted to help other people like me who wanted to get into real estate.

They were taking these kind of gaps. Rich quick courses, which really were all that were available. If you wanted to learn how to invest in real estate at the time. And you know, I just really just giving them another perspective. On it and, and yeah, and it did, it did extraordinarily well. so Wiley was wrong.

I did have a strong enough platform to sell books cause I took it to number one overall on Amazon ahead of Dan Brown ahead of Game of Thrones. I’m pretty sure they’ve never taken a real estate book to number one on Amazon. So, and this was a nonfiction, you know, niche book by a self-published author, outselling all these books.

So, so that ended had it had a happy ending.

Joel: Yeah, it sounded the screenshot. So great. Congratulations. I was pressed as like, Whoa. Wow. That’s that’s amazing. So have you always wanted, did to write a book and this was just an opportunity or was it something that just kind of, it was a spark that came to you one day.

Julie: Both. I mean, I was a writer as a child. I had short stories published at the age of seven and I think seven and eight, I had tons of short stories published. So I always thought I would be a writer. And then somewhere along the line, people told me writers don’t make money. So I went to business school, and kind of lost all thought of.

Of, you know, being an author until I started to see friends getting book deals. Feels and then, you know, all of this happened and then it really came back to me that I want to write books and I want to be a part of that space.

Joel: And so it changed your life. And can you tell us a little bit how that happened and then how that launched into your new business?

Julie: Yeah, I mean, ultimately it, you know, Ellen didn’t, I didn’t get to dance with Ellen. I opened it and call it was, yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty cool to go to number one, but I did think. You know, it’s one of those things where I guess in your head, it’s a bigger deal than maybe it really is. I don’t know.

but, you know, all that stuff, it, it changed my life in a variety of ways. First and foremost, it was an enormous business booster for us. My husband and I had two businesses at the time. One was a training and education company. So helping people invest in real estate with less risk and, you know, still the same.

Financial rewards, but more sensible. And we also had an investment company where we were buying a house pretty much every month and turning it into a rental property. And keeping it in our portfolio. So we needed to raise a lot of capital. And we also, you know, we’re always looking for new, new people to be in our training programs.

The book, you know, easily is responsible for doubling our business. And we had multiple investors come to us from reading our book and like out of nowhere, just pick up the phone and say, Hey, listen, I’ve got half a million. I need to invest somewhere. You know, I liked your book. Can we talk? And one of the people still in an investor with us to this day, and we’re not really active in, we don’t actively invest anymore, but yeah.

So hold properties. So, yeah, so that, I mean, that really was the first change, you know, financially things, things got stronger, things were easier on the business side, but ultimately for me, it really opened up. The door to me, seeing self-publishing as a real viable option for growing business, getting important message such as out there.

And, you know, I’m just really impacting not only myself, but other readers and other people cause my book, you know, really had an impact on people. And that feels pretty incredible to help people, you know when they read your book, and through all of that, I saw the gaps in the industry. And I had friends that did get the publishing deals that I didn’t get, coming to me going, Hey, I’m not getting, I’m not getting this kind of my book.

Isn’t doing well, what do I need to do differently? And so I saw on the traditional side, the challenges that they had on marketing a book, and then other people, self-publishing, who. We’re putting books out that really weren’t good books and, you know, was no wonder they were struggling to get results. And I just started to see a real need for people to have support writing a great book, but writing a great book that will be marketed at the end and bringing it all under one roof, which is what we do at book launcher.

So yeah. We really take that idea of how you’re going to sell your book, who you’re going to sell it to what’s it going to do? And we help you right from the beginning, make sure that that book is going to be marketable to that audience and have an impact on them, but also on you in your life and in your business.

Joel: And then during this time correct me if I’m wrong, but you moved to LA can you tell us, I believe it was so your husband could pursue acting. Can you tell us about that experience and a little bit about that journey.

Julie: Immigration is not for the faint of heart. I can tell you that it is. So I’m one of those people who goes all in, obviously, you know, Oh, Wiley won’t publish my book. Okay. I’m going to do it better than you. So that’s, you know, Tasted my personality. So as my husband got more and more into acting and started to leave real estate, I didn’t want to do the real estate without him.

We were very much a team. You know, I was very strong on the marketing and communication side and he was very strong on the numbers and real estate needs both. And so I didn’t want to do, didn’t want to do it without them. Didn’t want to find somebody to replace him. so I was really looking around to see what else I could do.

And I wrote another book in the meantime, but I just, I wasn’t feeling it. You know how you, I had a lot of things to say, I knew I could add value, but it just wasn’t sparking anything in me. and his acting was starting to go well, but you know, starting a new career in your forties is tough and not being in the epicentre of where decisions are made is even tougher. So I kinda just said, Hey, you know what, maybe we should go to LA to give this like a full shot so we can just say, Hey, we tried it. You know, no matter what happens, we can say we went all in and tried hard. and so we went down the crazy journey of, of going there and. To move. We got what’s called an investor visa, and I won’t get super technical, but, the short version of that is you could either buy a business or you can create one, but no matter what you do, you need to create employment.

From the start. Like they, the only reason they want you to come into the country with this visa is to give jobs to Americans. And, and so I tried by looking at businesses to buy. I spent many weeks in Los Angeles and I didn’t want to buy anybody else’s business that bored me, other people’s problems.

Weren’t that interesting. I’d rather create my own. So I kept going back to this idea of helping people write and publish books and knowing the gaps that I had seen already. And I’d already been helping a lot of authors, just for fun, just friends. And, so I said, no, what I’m going to, I’m going to create my dream company because I have to invest money in this anyways. I have to kind of build the company backwards. so I, I. Dreamed up book conscious and applied for a visa and had some border agent evaluate my business plan and eventually give me the stamp of approval to move to the States and launch the company.

Joel: Nice and so you mentioned your newest book ‘A Brand New You,’ can you tell us a little bit about what that’s about and who the audience for that is?

Julie: Yeah. So first of all, at a lesson in titling a book is right there. This is how never to title a book. The title is actually the new brand, you, but nobody ever gets it right.

And I’ve done, I think, 75 podcast interviews. And I would say 80% of the interviewers say it wrong, just like you did. And this is, this is an illustration of my problem. Not. Any of the interviewers. So when you’re titling a book, you want to make sure people remember it and can say it, and you don’t try to get too cute or too fancy because this is, this has been just, it’s incredible.

If I wanted to stick with this, I would relaunch the book and give it a new title. So something, we work really hard with all of our clients on book titling. And it’s almost never the title that you think like that makes you fall in love with your book idea. That’s almost never the title that you should be, but just so you know, anyways, so that book, that was really how we raised money for real estate.

Ultimately, that’s what it was, but because I was putting it out at a time when we were really moving away from the intense real estate businesses that we’d been running. I trust tried to wrap it in a more general thing. and ultimately this book is really an example of how not to write a book, to make it marketable.

It is I think a better book than more than cash flow, but it doesn’t have a clear audience. If I had said, this is how you raise money for your real estate deals, it would have sold. but I tried it to move, use it to move away without actually declaring who it’s for. so instead it’s a really great book on how you can position yourself.

To have money or clients come to you and how you can do it in a way, you know, if you’re a high introvert like me, or you’re really uncomfortable, you know, going for the ask, this is how you get people to come to you. And so it’s, it’s tremendously valuable. And again, I actually think it’s a better book than more than cashflow.

However, it’s not well-positioned. And as a result, it did not do well. And then I. Moved to book conscious and haven’t focused on it.

Joel: So do you talk about branding in this book or is it purely about more of like, I guess a marketing and sales strategy?

Julie: That’s the thing is it’s really your brand that brings people to you.

And that’s what I was talking about. Like how we ended up raising millions and millions of dollars for our investment business and filling our classes. It was through our brand because people trusted us and it ultimately comes back to you as a person. And when I launched book launchers, my first 10 clients were people who knew me as a brand from the real estate space.

And they just said, you know what? We’ve seen, what you do. We trust you, you’re you say, you’re going to publish books. We’re going to come work with you. And so that really is, that’s what the book is about is creating that brand of trust so that whatever you say, you’re doing, people believe you, they trust you and they want to work with you.

Joel: Can you give us some tips about how you can create that trust?

Julie: Yeah, absolutely. A couple things are it’s really simple stuff. And do what you say you’re going to do. Always, always, always, always. And it seems simple. And yet a lot of people don’t do this, right. They don’t show up when they say they’re going to, they don’t send that email when they say they’re going to, and that can erode trust really, really fast.

But if you consistently are that person who does what you say you’re going to do, that can go a long way over time. From a more business perspective. I think, you know, building a brand around things like that. So being consistent. So just as a, you know, to give a really practical example on YouTube, when I launched the conscious.tv, which is the YouTube channel.

when I first launched it, I was publishing videos kind of whenever my editor would give them to me that wasn’t really growing the channel. Then I started looking at what other tubers were doing and they were publishing on a schedule. So I started publishing every Friday and that started to work, but I wasn’t getting a lot of engagement or even real true momentum.

It was growing, but it was really slow. So I started publishing every Tuesday and Friday and never missed it unless I told people in advance that, you know, Hey, I’m taking a four week. Break or whatever that was and that consistency, because you’re showing up, you tell them I’m going to be here every Tuesday and Friday.

And then every Tuesday and Friday you show up, it’s really seems simple, but these things that are power full brand builders, because they know, they know they can trust me to show up every Tuesday and Friday. So, yeah, those are just a couple of tips.

Joel: I love them. I think the last one is super powerful because I totally believe that consistency, you know, doing small steps over time is exactly what builds your business, what builds your brand.

But. it’s also super hard because it’s, you don’t see the results a lot of the time right away. So it can be really difficult to keep the faith, if you will, and to, you know, keep imagining a future where you know, these things actually matter and, and that you do get that audience. So I think that, you know, I don’t know if you want to comment about it.

Julie: Yeah, no you’ve, you’ve nailed it. It’s hard. It’s hard to put out content on a regular basis and feel like nobody’s listening. And in the beginning, they really aren’t. But that’s good news, especially when it comes to video because you probably aren’t doing a good job at the beginning, so it’s good.

Nobody’s watching it first. over time, you’ll get better. But I think the thing is to con to be consistent, but to also pay attention. So what, what did you get a little bit of engagement on? What did work to get, you know, a little bit of traction or what videos or what content did you put out that actually got a couple of comments that day and doing more of that still doing it consistently, like, you know, again, sticking to that schedule, sticking to that consistent message.

That’s the other thing too, is to not change tones on people. All the time, like do an about face one day, you’re talking about this. And then the next day you’re totally, you know, slamming something. You want to have a concern, stint tone. So people, you know, know, they can rely on you to kind of step up in a certain way.

But, but yeah, just listening to people. And, and in the beginning, it’s just tiny things that you’ll see, but you know, maybe one video we’ll give you 200 views versus the other one that was 90. Okay. What did I do differently between these two videos? What did I talk about? What did I do? Okay. Can maybe I can do a little bit more of that next time and see what happens.

And it does feel slow at first. but your consistency. And I think most of the YouTube channels, usually take at least two years before. Anything is happening. and then they, you know, some of them can just grow in, edit a crazy pace and the same thing with your blog or a newsletter, you know, it takes showing up consistently for a few years. It is not months. It’s not days, it’s years.

Joel: Yeah, I, yeah, totally agree with you. I’m going to switch a little bit and talk about, you know, go back to book writing who should be writing a book should. You know, is, is there a book in everybody or should you only write a book? If you have a specific message in mind?

Julie: Yeah, it’s funny. Cause I hear a lot of people saying, you know, everybody has a book in them and maybe that’s true because you know, the more people, well, I meet the more phenomenal stories there are almost every person has a phenomenal story.  However, I do think that some people are not going to share enough.

Enough of themselves, enough of their, they’re not going to get vulnerable half to actually create a book that would matter. and then the other side of this is some people have a really incredible story, but they haven’t, they haven’t done anything to actually turn it into something that makes a book.

And what I mean by that is your story has tremendous value to somebody. if you don’t think about who that person is and what they’re going to take away from it and really wrap it right. Into a, into a format, right? In a way, a message that actually has an impact, it’s really not gonna work. And so you, you still could write a book.

you could write a book for a legacy purpose, but if you want to write a book for, you know, to sell the book and to market yourself, to build your brand, you really have to remember that book might be about you, but it’s not for you. And until you’re really ready to share the things you have to share in order to impact the person that you need to impact in order to sell the book and build your message, build your movement, whatever it is.

you know, you’re not ready to write a book until you’re ready to share deeply enough to actually have an impact. So, it’s kind of a long-winded answer to say you probably everybody has a book in them, but I don’t think everybody should write a book until they’re ready. I think

Joel: that’s, that’s a great answer. Do you, you primarily help people who are self-published, would you recommend people go the more traditional route of publishing and you know, in the five big companies in New York, or is self-publishing the wave of the future?

Julie: Well, I mean first, the first way I can answer it. So that is to tell you that, you know, I think one of the greatest things that happened to me is not getting a publishing deal and that’s from a whole bunch of perspectives. So that’s from the fact that I, I did the math. This is a couple of years old now, but I did the math on it. And had I gotten that book deal and sold the same number of copies? I think I would have made under $10,000. I know I would’ve made under $10,000 for that.

Again, this was a few years ago. but you know, I made, I made over a hundred thousand dollars from book sales and that it’s just through the online, like not through online, but through Amazon and IngramSpark, those kinds of platforms that doesn’t include the speaking engagements that I did where I sold books at the back of the room and, you know, Well, I don’t tell CRA, but there was okay.

Yeah. Thank you. And so there was a tremendous amount of money made that I wouldn’t have made had I gotten that book deal, but beyond that, you know, I have. Friends who got book deals who got, TV opportunities had to buy their book back from Wiley in order to pursue the TB opportunity. and then I had another one, a friend who had his book, reprinted word for word under somebody else’s name because he had stopped promoting it.

And that really bothered him, especially since he had two co-authors on the book. and they were still in the real estate space where he wasn’t, and. You know, wildly republished it and gave no credit to his coauthors either. and so he was really sick by this. It’s not wrong because they get all rights and royalties and when it comes to nonfiction, I think that’s something you really have to pay close attention to and ask yourself if you’re okay, giving your intellectual property to someone else.

Like you have to really let that set sit in. Cause this is your intellectual property. And I love control. I want to control my intellectual property. you know, forget about the fact that I’m going to make six to eight times more per book sold. you know, I want to have the right to do whatever I want with it.

now, and in the future that said. If it’s really important to you, really, really, really important to you. And you know, it’s possible to become a New York Times bestseller, then you pretty much have to go with one of the big five. so if you are a really high paid consultant or a really, you’re already making five figures for speaking, and you want that New York times bestseller tag beside your name to add more credibility and clout, you have to go with one of the.

Big five, because traditionally are self-published authors. It’s a curated list. And if you’re not with one of the big five, you know, they curate you out of there. Even if you do outsell a bestseller,

Joel: we talk about marketing a little bit, and somebody who wants to write a book, when should they start thinking about marketing and what activities should they pursue in order to increase their audience and sell more books?

Julie: First of all, how we approach this is the minute you say you want to write a book, we start talking to you about who your market, who you’re going to market it to. So you haven’t even written a word yet. And that’s what we’re talking about is who’s your audience for this book and how are you going to reach them?

And it’s really important that you don’t start writing that book until you can actually picture. Where they’re hanging out where you’re going to be able to connect with them. So, and I mentioned this because so many people sit down and write a book, thinking it’s going to help people, you know, people like me, for example.

and that’s what they say, like in their head. It’s, I’m not saying people like Julie, I’m saying the author seeking people like me. And so that’s not clear enough. And then the other thing, the other one I get all the time is, Oh, well, this book is for women between the ages of 30th and 50. Like, no, like where are they hanging out?

You know, you’re not Coca-Cola, you don’t have the budget to splash ads everywhere. Let’s figure out where they’re hanging out and who they are. So it’s really in a perfect example. I just had a conversation with somebody who was talking about my book is for anybody with a paycheck. And I said, well, I get a paycheck.

From my company is your book for me. And he said, well, no, you’re an owner. I said, okay. So it’s not for anybody with a paycheck. And then I said, is it for the 18-year-old kid? McDonald’s and he said, well not unless they want to work for McDonald’s and climb their career ladder. I’m like, okay, so now it’s for somebody climbing the ladder in a big company, you know?

So you start to narrow down and figure out who it is. And then you can start to see where they’re hanging out, you know, graduating from college there, you know, you gotta be able to say the associations, they belong to the podcast. They listened to the magazines. They listened or read. When you get that, then you can start writing.

And that’s so important because once you have that, you already know how you’re going to be marketing the book at the end, which also answers the question of what should you be doing. Everybody should be building a platform of some kind, but if you don’t have one, your book is going to help you build one.

If you know where the people are hanging out and you’re going to be able to find them.

Joel: Yeah, I get that all the time as well. It’s for women between the ages of 30 and 50 55. And so it’s, yeah, it’s definitely very hard to narrow that down and, and people think that, that people, that the book is so good that it will just naturally get picked up somewhere. Oh. And so, and so I have to bring, I’m sure you do, to bring them down to earth a little bit and say, well, No, not exactly. It doesn’t, it doesn’t really work exactly like that.

Julie: Or at all really. I mean, we have incredible stories all the time in one of our books that, it did well, and it certainly, you know, the author, we got the author on the inside edition. Good morning, America, 2020, the cover of the Los Angeles Times. So like, it was a really powerful story.

You would think it would be a traditionally published book, but it wasn’t. And he, one of the main reasons he didn’t even want to look into it. Was that, you know, he wanted to make sure his, his story and his message was spoken. Cause it was called, killer’s keep secrets. And he was the brother-in-law of a very famous serial killer, the Golden State killer.

and, but he, so he wanted to be, he didn’t his voice and what he wanted to say, his message, it didn’t get changed, which, you know, when he sold it to a publisher would happen. But the other thing was he had no platform whatsoever. And didn’t want to build one. Didn’t want to have one. you know the limited media that we did do with him was kind of it, he doesn’t, he doesn’t want to have a big profile.

he just really wanted to, to get it off his chest more than anything. but that’s really something to really think about when you pursue, when you pursue this as your, you might have one of the most incredible stories and it might even be media worthy, but that doesn’t mean it’s going to make the numbers work for a traditional publisher.

Joel: Can you talk a little bit about social media and how you specifically think about that for your for authors?

Julie: This is a fun one. So, yeah, you must have done your research. You’re like picking all the things that have very strong opinions on it. Aye. Social media is one of those things.

People get really hung up on it. They’re like I have 10,000 followers. I’m like great. You’re going to sell 10 books.

I’ll put a lot of time and effort and energy into it. we have had some clients who have really engaged following on Instagram and that has sold books. But the thing is, if you don’t have a social media following right now, and you’re going to publish a book, don’t waste your time building a following on social media.

Because again, just like I was talking about with YouTube, it takes years. To build an engaged following on social media. You’re much better off to dedicate your time to reaching out and building relationships with people who have a relationship with you. Ideal reader, because those people, they have platforms, right?

So there was a podcast or whether they have events where they have your ideal, your ideal reader in their room. there’s lots of webinars and zoom things and Facebook lives in places that. People are always looking for content. You’re much better off to build are you know, put your time into building that relationship with those people that have an audience than you are to crafting social media posts and trying to collect one follower at a time only to find out that like 0.1% of those followers are actually going to buy your book.

Joel: And so how do you reach out to those influencers?

Julie: It depends on who they are and what they do. there’s no, there’s not a formula for this. I wish there was. but let’s just, I can give you one kind of concrete approach. So if they are active, say on social media, I’m Pat Flynn is a great example right now.

he has gone, ever since the pandemic started, he’s gone live on YouTube, every single. Day, I don’t know how you do this, but 7:30 AM and Pacific standard time. He’s going live every single day on YouTube. so if you want it to get in front of him, you could just show up for his life every day and comment and participate and add value guaranteed. And I’ve actually, I don’t tune in even remotely. On a regular basis, but I have seen him as the pandemic has gone on, I seen him recognizing people who have been there every day. So now if you’ve been there 30 days in a row commenting on his posts and you drop him an email and remind them, Hey, I’ve been on there 30 days way to go.

Like, I really loved your episode on acts and yeah. And you say, I have a book coming out in two weeks, you know, or in three months, and I’d love for you to endorse it. you know, is this something you do? There’s a very good chance. He’s going to say no, by the way. Got to prep yourself for this, that there are people are going to say, no, but if you’re doing this consistently, they’re going to know who you are.

And they may say no to your ask, but they probably will offer some other opportunity or some other option. but you have to add value first, always add value first. And if you go straight for the ask, you better get right to the point and be as nice as well possible because you know, the number of people who write me and just say, ‘Hey, will you review my book?’

Or please read my book and write a review. Like every day, no relationship, no whatsoever, but somebody who I call my YouTube bestie, who? Comments on videos every Tuesday and Friday. I have a really hard time saying no, it’s really hard because I’ve built. I know they’re there. They’re there for me. So I feel like I should be there for them.

Joel: Hmm. I love Pat Flynn, by the way. He’s somebody I definitely look up to it. I didn’t know that he was doing these live events. I’ll definitely check it out. So thanks for that.

Julie: Yeah. You’re welcome.

Joel: Is there a book that you particularly liked to gift or a favourite book that you’d like to re-read?

Julie: Oh, my goodness. yeah, so you’re talking to a complete book nerd, so it’s really hard to pick one book for rereading. I have to say, I have two favourites, the war of art from Steven Pressfield. I quote, I quote it all the time and I. Reread it probably yearly. and then also, pitch anything by Oren Klaff.

I haven’t reread it in a while, but from a sales and a mindset and a branding perspective, it’s really easy to. Position yourself in a weaker position. I think a lot of, a lot of people do this, especially when you feel uncomfortable going for the ask. And he really, he talks about pricing and some other things, and they’re just really, really great concepts not to make you aggressive, but just to really know your value and come into things with value.

And so, yeah, I liked that book. I’ve read it quite a few times. I’ve often gifted it for books. I gift it really depends on the person because I do have a. Deep deep experience, not just in reading thousands of books myself, but also in publishing hundreds of books. I have a book for every person, so I, I usually gift whatever’s appropriate for them in there.

Joel: Well, thank you, Julie, for being on the show, really appreciate your time for people who want to reach out to you, where’s the best place to find you.

Julie: if you want to reach me and not some of my team, the best places on YouTube, I do everything on YouTube. So I am the one that responds to all comments.

So if you want to connect. Directly with me, book launchers.tv. If you want to learn more about what we do at book launchers and connect with us as a company, but conscious.com or book launchers on any of the social media we’re hanging out there and somebody will answer you. It just probably won’t be me.

Joel: Well, thank you Julie for being on the show.

Julie: Yeah, thanks so much for having me take care.

Joel: Thank you for listening to publishing for profits, please like, and subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.