Dan Gilmour | How To Become A Sales Master

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And now your host, Joel Mark Harris.

Joel: Hello, this is Joel Mark Harris, and welcome to the publishing for profit podcast. Today we are interviewing Dan Gilmore of salesstrategy.ca. He is a highly sought-after sales strategist, and we talk obviously about sales, but we also talk about how he got into the industry. He started a music company called Organic Music that taught students different instruments. So very interesting conversation and I’ve known Dan for some time now and actually learn quite a lot about him in this interview. There’s lots for you to learn about sales and how you can better prospect, better convert, your ideal customer to people who actually pay you money, which is great. So have a good listen to this episode and enjoy.

Dan. Thank you so much for being on the show today. How are you?

Dan: I’m doing well. Thanks, Joel. I appreciate you having me on here, man. So exciting time. And I’m glad to glad to chat with you.

Joel: I was thinking back to, I mean, I can’t remember how many years I’ve known you, but it’s been some time and we met through BNI, and primarily before I knew you as a musician. And I know music is still a big part of your life, but I want to talk about that briefly. What is it about music that inspires you?

Dan: Yeah, for sure. Like, definitely you’re right. We met each other when I joined BNI when I owned a music school and now I’m totally in a new but similar direction and maybe we can go into that later but, now I’m running a sales business Salesstrategy.ca and definitely music is a big part.

You know when I was a kid, I remember listening to music with my parents, especially on road trips, growing up. My mom was a piano teacher and I did give her a little bit of a hard time. I didn’t want to learn from my mom. I was like no one wants to learn from their mom to be quite honest here.

It’s tough, but, anyway, I bought my first bass guitar when I was in grade seven with paper money. And, then I went on to play music later in high school and where I had the opportunity to tour China with the school band and played a number of cool music festivals, including a bunch of cool stuff.

And, yeah, I was hooked. I like the challenge of learning music and playing songs and memorizing stuff. And I loved entertaining people. So I went on to study jazz at Capilano University and, now music is, is still a big part of my life. And, I’d like to connect with people and hang out and play music.

And, jam, and, also I like to play worship music, with I’m a Christian and I play a little bit with some people from church and, I love to play worship music as well.

Joel: Is that a worship band or what does that look like?

Dan: Well, not, not right now due to COVID, but hopefully when COVID restrictions are back down, then I can start to play more with musicians just right now. It’s, it’s more like me playing music, a recording, one instrument, me playing that. stopping the recording, playing back the recording, playing along to myself, have you seen those YouTube videos? There’s a lot of good, good musicians who do exactly that and yeah, it sounds fantastic.

Joel: It’s definitely more fun than doing it alone for sure. What is it about music exactly that hooked you?

Dan: Well, I guess I grew up playing sports and, when you’re playing sports, there’s like that flow state that people talk about when things are going right. And you’re in the zone. And, really you get the same feeling when you’re playing music with other people. And I really liked that. so that’s, that’s one of the reasons, I guess another reason is I like listening to music. I like how people can express and, create art from music. So a big part. And also I, for, for me as a, as well now is like, I like to worship through playing music as well. And so that’s a thing that I enjoy a lot. Nice.

Joel: And what are some of your influences?

Dan: Yeah. So influences in the music, I guess, growing up, I, the first music concert I went to, I think, I was a baby. My parents took me to a Colin James concert. He’s a blues musician. And I was. Enjoying that, for me, I’ve always really enjoyed, I guess, like blues more rock, I remember I was saying before on road trips with my parents, I remember, I’d listened to led Zeppelin with my dad.

then also listening to Miles Davis kind of a blues album, and it’s like a modal jazz album. And that’s what I thought the entirety of jazz was before I went to jazz school. And funk music, rock folk.  I love a whole variety of, of music.

Joel: I just got Led Zeppelin for Christmas, the actual LP.  I’m super excited to play that. I love led Zeppelin as well. Can you tell us about organic music which is the music school that you founded?

Dan: Yeah, for sure. So the organic music concept was to teach students the language of music through learning the songs they love. And that’s how I really got into music more as well.

And I think when people are also able to learn their favourite songs, then it adds a. A degree of another level of enjoyment to the learning. So for organic music, all the teachers were required to be able to listen to a student’s favourite song in their first lesson and be able to play it by ear right away.

And then, to be able to teach that song to the students. Hm. So, that’s, that’s something that I was doing when I started teaching. And, that’s what I had all of our teachers do as well, because what’s, what’s better when he say, Oh, this is my favourite song. You listened to it, your teacher plays it, or on whatever instrument.

Right. And, that right away, they’re like, okay, so let’s start learning your favourite song. And you’re like, Wait, I can do that. And my first lesson, do you like? Yeah, absolutely. maybe we’ll make it slightly simpler, like our, easy level, rock, band version, but, increasing in difficulty as, as you advance.

So that’s, That’s I guess, about organic music and the concept of working in music.

Joel: So why did you decide to go the entrepreneur route, in 17, you could have been a music teacher anywhere. I’m sure it, it, obviously, probably now it’s a lot harder, but it’s much easier to just be a kind of nine to five musician and, and do that but you decided to start a company and, and go that route. Why did you decide to do that?

Dan: Yeah. So, like you’re saying versus a career of working as a teaser for a high school for like a high school, like a high school of music or like, I guess, straight and narrow path rather than what you did.  I guess for me, I didn’t want to go back to high school. It’s is one reason a lot of the teachers that I did end up working within Organic Music did eventually go that route, but that there’s nothing wrong with that.

That’s a very, valid and valuable profession. for me personally, I always wanted to build a business. And that’s something that, growing up as a teenager, even, I’d be going and playing music. But then I was a bit of a strange kid going to the library and studying business books or on leadership because.

I liked it. I was super interested in building a business. So this is something that I always wanted to do. And, at that time I knew I wanted to build a business, but, I didn’t have that many marketable skills other than playing music. So I said, Hey, you know what? Let’s go forward with this one. I’m already teaching anyway.

So, this is, Great fun thing to do. And also I thought it would be pretty valuable as an education to build a music school and, things ended up working well, then that could be a great business as well.

Joel: I know you’re very passionate about music and education. Why is it important for a student to not only learn reading, writing, arithmetic the usual, but also have a musical education.

Dan: Yeah. So like, I think it, teaches dedication and perseverance and it also teaches there are no shortcuts. So for example, I remember when I was in school, I. I was gifted a little bit with, being able to remember things in a short-term memory very well. So for example, I remember studying before a test, like five minutes before reading through everything and memorizing it for like the next 20 minutes, writing the test super fast, getting a high grade, then instantly forgetting everything.

So. Maybe other people can relate to that as well. But, for me, what I liked about music is it, it taught me that, there, there is the importance of, of excellence and, preparing ahead of time. if you learn a song five minutes before the performance, you’re not going to fare so well, and for example, like if you get 51% of a song, right.

It’s pretty obvious to the audience that you aren’t very good. you have to sound a hundred percent perfect. And, when you learn this type of dedication and perseverance, it’s highly applicable to developing excellence in whatever job or craft you choose.

Joel: I know you’ve had because we’ve had lots of conversations about this.

just you and I, but can you tell us a little bit, I’ve known, I know you’ve had a lot of cool moments in organic, organic music. can you tell us, like maybe some of your favourites?

Dan: Absolutely. Maybe I’ll tell a couple and you can tell one that you remember, but I think one of the coolest moments was the first time when a student I was teaching was accepted into university for, for music after the audition.

And basically that, what happened was, the student came and he was very nervous. He had an audition in two weeks for his university to get in. And he wasn’t sure that he was good enough to get in. So he came and he took a few lessons and what he was doing before. I taught him brand new things right before.

And luckily he had the craft and skill and he was dedicated. So that over that period, he really worked hard and he went into his audition and he was playing and he came back out and right after he came over, it. And, I met with him and he’s like, ah, man, I think, I did really poorly. I don’t know if I, I got in, I was like, Oh, well tell me about what did you do?

And he’s like, I did this, I did this and I did this. I was like, it’s okay, you’ll get it. And he was like, you don’t understand. I did so bad. I was like, no, you will get it. You’re being hard on yourself. And, he got a letter, a couple months later and he’s like, I got in. You were right. This is great.

And, then he went on, became a professional musician, a touring musician. That’s great. So I think that’s an exciting, cool moment. And another really cool. I think a lot of really cool moments, happened during our marketing campaigns to introduce children to music. For example, like some of the things that I really enjoyed is like lots of babies, whose parents, sat them down on the drum throne and put the drum sticks in their hands.

And then, the look of shock and joy, when the baby first hits the snare drum and they’re like, Oh, I can do this. This is great. You know? And, so I think things like that are pretty cool when, people who didn’t know that they could play, when, when we were able to show them a few chords or a few, groups that they were able to play right away.

And they were like, wow, this is fun. I never thought about this, you know? So I think, I think the introducing people to music is pretty exciting. Hmm.

Joel: That’s awesome. That’s really cool. you talked about the, your student who became a professional musician and, a lot of parents like, and it’s very similar to writing, people don’t think that you could become a professional writer or, like a celebrity writer.

I think the same stigma is surrounds music, right? So, people discourage their kids from, Taking music too seriously because they don’t see a career in music. They don’t, they can, there’s obviously that old, I guess the old adage that, those that can’t do, they teach, right?

So you can become a music teacher, but they don’t see a future in music. Is it possible for people to. become professional musicians that aren’t, that aren’t always on YouTube and aren’t celebrity musicians.

Dan: Yeah. So there’s like music is a pretty broad career. There’s a whole variety of things that you can be working in.

Like you could be an original artist. I think that’s what most people think of when somebody chooses a career as a musician, being an original artist, writing your own songs, your own lyrics, singing and playing guitar or piano. And I think that’s what most people think of as a successful music career. a lot of musicians.

Who are professionals are not original artists, a very common career track is for example, like a professional backing or touring musician. So for example, if you think of your favourite, a solo artist, when they have a band behind them, those people are, I guess, they’re, they’re hired backing or touring musicians.

So, that’s definitely a valid, career choice, for people I really like being entertainers. you’re playing covers all the time because you didn’t write any of the songs you’re playing the original artists songs. And so that’s something to keep in mind if you really like your craft and you really like entertaining, then that’s pretty fun.

And also if you want to be a professional backing touring musician, you have to be really good to chill with. that’s one of the key things is you have to be able to stand that musician on the tour bus when you’re touring across the country. Right. So, that’s pretty important then there’s also, studio musician.

So somebody who is just really good at. Learning something quickly and then playing it perfectly. And, those studio musicians are usually contracted when you’re recording an album or something like that. And, they oftentimes studio musicians. They don’t go on tour. So that’s, that’s another career option.

and others is songwriter, basically writing lyrics and chords. And, now how the songwriting business has, has. progressed is oftentimes what happens is the songwriter. They write a song and if they’re writing for an original artist, they have to go and hang out with that original artist and do like a co-writing session.

And they basically have to convince that new artists. The original artists that the original artists wrote it themselves, even though they actually, they did it. And then they give a ghostwriting cred.

Joel: That’d be like ghostwriting for musicians.

Dan: Exactly. But for original artists, usually they have the sense that they really want to do everything themselves.

They don’t want anybody else to write their songs. So you have to convince them that they wrote enough of the song. So you’d have to kind of like write it here. And that, read it ahead of time and then say, Hey, I have an idea, but it’s not finished even though it’s finished and you just add it later, you know?

So that’s a tricky thing for songwriting with original artists. And then there’s like, writing music for films as a composer, then there’s more of the entertainer side, which is often what you’ll probably see more on like, somebody who might be playing music, but they’re using it as an entertainment tool, maybe on YouTube and there.

Maybe pretty funny and easy to hang out with as well. So, or a mix of these, that’s, these are all careers and, it also depends how much you want to earn, ultimately, salaries range from if you’re not working in music from minimum wage to significantly higher and in music, it’s like, essentially you’re starting your own business.

As a solopreneur. So it’s good to consider the economics and, how you compare to your competitors. So you got to be pretty good. So it’s just like anything.

Joel: Yeah. So for people who, like, I don’t think music is very practical. I want to be an accountant or a lawyer. is, is there, are there opportunities in music that you don’t think about or the person on the street doesn’t even know about.

Dan: I’m sure. Yeah. This industry is changing significantly, especially from disruptions of technology. So I think if you’re able to make ny entrepreneurs prob to solve any entrepreneurs problems, then you provide value. And, if those, entrepreneurs happen to be in the music industry, that’s a pretty interesting way to work in the music industry.

So figuring out what problems to solve for those music entrepreneurs.

Joel: So I think that’s a good segue. You, you closed organic music and you started your own sales consultant, business. Why, why did you do that? What prompted you to, to shift directions like that?

Dan: Yeah, so like to, I guess to give you context, I mentioned earlier, I’m a born again Christian and believe in Jesus as my Lord and saviour.

So, around the beginning of 2019, I was praying and focusing on, a couple of Bible verses like one verse. I took a note here, let’s see, Colossians three 23. It says whatever you do work at it with all your heart as working for the Lord, not for human masters, and also Proverbs 16, nine in their hearts, humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps.

And so. basically almost overnight around February, 2019. I just knew that God wanted me to close the music school and to open a sales business. But I didn’t know, bang. So instead I hired him, the manager to run the business, and that continued until March 2020 when I was like, okay, God, I will obey.

And so I closed the business and moved fully to focusing on the sales business. And, now, I’m, I’m actually earning more than I was with the, with the music school. So, that’s Praise God for that. And so I think. It’s difficult to give you a business answer. Cause that’s, that’s the real answer.

Joel: Real answers are great. Yeah.  I’ve known you for like I said, a while now, and you’re definitely not the typical salesy guy that everybody thinks about. Obviously there’s the used car salesman, persona, there’s the push pushy person who’s like buy now. last time last offer, whatever it is, right?

You are almost the opposite of that. So is there, are there traits that you need to become a salesperson?

Dan: Yeah. So that’s a good question. Like I think people, they oftentimes don’t like salespeople because sales has been given a bad name by people who believe that selling is equivalent to manipulating the other person.

No one wants to be manipulated. And, my business sales strategy.ca we don’t do that. We focus on being a valuable resource and only selling to people who can truly benefit. And, you were mentioning like traits wise, to be good at sales, I would say, persistence, determination, preparation, trustworthiness, grit, grit is a big one.

Like, you have to be able to move on to the next call. When a sales call goes poorly. when you’re cold calling, if somebody hangs upon you, you have to have the grit to say, okay, next call then, Hey, how’s it going? And, so that’s, that’s a big one. Grit. Trustworthiness is also another important one.

Sales is about helping people by connecting them with the value of what you were offering. And, I believe it comes down to simply that when you promise something you follow through with it, that might be counter to what some people think of as salespeople. But, that’s how I see a good salesperson would be somebody who promises something that they know they’re going to deliver.

And in that way, they’re providing great value. And so when you’re doing sales with that perspective, you’re able to get a lot of, sense of accomplishment for helping somebody solve their problem by providing that solution.

Joel: That’s awesome. You mentioned cold calling just now with the changing technology with cell phones, with Caller ID, it becomes harder and harder to get people on the phone. Is that still an effective way of, doing sales?

Dan: Yeah. I looked at one of the questions you said, you sent me last week before this interview, and I think it’s kind of relevant to which is what’s the difference between marketing and sales. so in order to answer that question, kind of have to think about this question here, which is, how I explained it.

A little while ago is I was talking to my mom and she’s like, what exactly do you do? And, I told her this metaphor and I think it clears up the difference between sales and marketing, which is, is marketing is kind of like a machine gun. You’re just like shooting everywhere. Okay. And a sales is more like a sniper rifle.

It’s like. For one specific target. Okay. So for many people who are considering to focus mainly on marketing and to dismiss sales, in my opinion, they’re missing out on a great deal of value that they can acquire, because oftentimes the best clients. Are going to be also be identified as the best clients for your competitors.

So your competitors are going to also be focusing on acquiring that client. And, if you’re discounting the sales to reach out to them proactively and build a relationship with them, then, you may miss out on opportunities because oftentimes those best clients are also in a position. Of authority or power because there’s so many, salespeople who want their business, that they don’t have to go out and look for.

People to provide those services, they just sit back, set out an RFP and say, okay, here we go. So ideally what you want in order to acquire that client, as you want to build that relationship before they set out that RFP, and you want to make sure that you’re that solution that they think of even before the Save y, they consider any of your competitors.

So you want to proactively be there to solve that problem for them. And, the best way to do that is to reach out to them and provide more value than your competitors.

Joel: Hmm. Can you talk a little bit about how you build that relationship with those would-be clients?

Dan: Yeah. I think, a big thing related to that is, is really prospecting.

Like what we were talking about. You could call it cold calling or prospecting or business to business lead generation appointment setting, and, my recommendation is that business owners, they spend at least a few hours per week, calling a list of their ideal target prospects. And, it may feel strange at first, but over time, and with a little bit of preparation.

you can do, do wonders with this, with this, I guess, duty or task or habit. And, when you call, you’re wanting to provide a little bit of value and say, Hey, would you be open to a 15-minute meeting during this meeting? I’d like to share with you some insights that I’ve learned that could be beneficial as well.

I’d like to see if there might be potential for, any issues you’re having related to blah, blah, blah. whether you work with us or not, you’ll gather some insights and likely make some, different decisions in the future. And, based on this new information and what you’ll find more often than not is people are always looking for an edge.

So they, they often will book that call. And, if you can, if, when, when you’re on that call, if you can help them, you can set up a time to talk to them further. And if not, you want to establish yourself as their go-to resource that can suggest solutions or resources. Whenever they have a problem, you want them to come to you.

And, yeah, so, like I mentioned, the dream clients already have salespeople knocking on their door and competing for their business. So, you, you need to connect with them proactively. And, also another thing, Joel is, for those, for those people who don’t want to prospect themselves a sales strategy, my business, a sales strategy.ca we have a service called business to business lead generation, where we basically become a decentralized to a sales team of Canadian salespeople.

Generating you fresh dream clients from your target list. And for example, imagine your ideal client profile times a hundred meetings with similar companies. And actually that’s what we did with one current client in the past five weeks. So, you can check out our website@salesstrategy.ca email us or send a message on LinkedIn for more info, but it’s amazing what you can do with picking up the phone and genuinely wanting to help the other person and provide them value.

Joel: Yeah, I know you’ve helped me with my own sales strategy and you’ve been immensely helpful. So I appreciate that.

and I definitely recommend anyone listening or watching this to reach out to them. Okay. I want to, I want to talk about the prospecting. how does one go about, prospecting? Because I think people, especially business owners, they get overwhelmed pretty easily. And if they’re not sure how to do it, they just won’t do it.

So is there a way where people can easily prospect or do it systematically. So they know that they’re actually getting results.

Dan: This is quite a big question. Joel.

Joel: I only asked the tough questions.

Dan: We actually have a 10-week training, session on this specifically which is about 10 hours of training content. So if you really want the in-depth, happy to go over that at another time. But, for, I guess the quick answer is you want to identify who your target is. You want, based on a series of criteria. Do they meet this criteria, maybe level of revenue, maybe business type, maybe a job title of your target.

you want to create this list of people you’re going to reach out to then before reaching out, you want to know what you’re selling. So make it clear what your value proposition is. Make it clear what your scope of your services? Oftentimes, this is where a small business owners is they offer everything.

And when you offer everything, it’s almost like you offer nothing. because then you’re. Prospect has to create the scope. And that takes a lot of work to figure out how much you’re going to do and for how much money. So know ahead of time, exactly what work you’re going to do and how much you’re going to charge and what is included and what is not.

And, once you know that, then you want to put together maybe a quick script or at least an outline of what you’re going to say. And, you might, you’re going to put in there a quick overview of maybe the category that your scope. Addresses, or, or what your service provides the category of it.

You’re not going to explain the whole category when you’re prospecting. You’re just going to give a quick something interesting, something that will peak their interest, where they’re like, Hey, this guy could be interesting. Maybe this will solve my problem. And, you also want to mention a couple of pain points, maybe.

Oh, excuse me there. And maybe you’re experiencing in your script. You might say, oftentimes we help people who are experiencing X or Y or struggling with a common insert, a common problem, your ideal target, struggling with, and then to, to share that, Hey, I’d like to book a 15-minute call with you where we share some insights.

Related to blank, whether or not you meet with fests or what, whether or not you do business with us, you’ll, you’ll have some, a different way to look at X or Y in the future, and you’ll likely make some different decisions. what does date at time look like for a discovery cone?

Hmm, and then you wait and often sometimes people say, Hmm, let me look at my calendar here. if not, there might be a couple more or questions that they ask you to address to make sure that, they’re making good use of their time, but if you’re truly providing the value and, your ideal target really wants the insight that you’re providing.

You have a good chance of success in generating an employment.

Joel: Yeah, no, I think that’s super-valuable information and one of the reasons that I really enjoy working with you is because you’re very structured and you’re very organized, whereas I’m sort of fly by the seat of the pants kind of guy.

I’ll call up a prospect and I will, something, sometimes be mid making stuff up on the spot and be like, Oh, maybe I’ll charge you this and, and maybe I’ll do this for you. And it always. Blows up in my face because I’ll get off the fall phone and I’d be like, Oh, why did I decide on that?

Why did I say that? Why did I decide in that price? But your process is, it seems well, I know it’s very systematized. It’s very much, create your customer avatar, figure out what packages you are going to sell. So, I guess my question is this, have you always been that structured in your approach and is that an important aspect to sales?

Dan: Yeah, so I guess, jumping back a tiny bit to, you mentioned that you are coming up with things on the spot. One of the reasons that I found over time that people want to do business with other people is that you’re valuable. Your time is really valuable or your insights are really valuable or whatever you deliver is really valuable.

And one way you can prove that what you’re doing is really valuable is by turning people down saying, no, actually we don’t do that. And here’s why, and they’ll say, wow, this person knows quite a bit about what they’re doing, because oftentimes what’s, if you. Not exactly what you’re talking about. And I have a really clear idea of what you’re looking to deliver.

They know that what they’re going to receive is, is going to be of quality and going to be organized. So, to answer your question, have I always been organized or, is this, is this something new? I think I’ve, I’ve always liked organizing, things, Whether it be like, when I was a kid, I think I had like trading cards, you know?

I think being on a, a team is also even more fun to be, organizing things together. So whether it be like now it’s, organizing processes or, like, I guess processes summarizes it. I’m organizing processes and systems. And, I’ve, I’ve always felt a sense of accomplishment when organizing things.

But, now that I have a team, at sales strategy and, we’re growing as well as, eh, A lot more fun than organizing by myself, similar to music. It’s more fun with more people. So, putting that together, the joy of, of ha or sense of accomplishment of organizing something that, will be a value to another person.

Joel: This is probably a question you get a lot at, and it’s probably more complicated than I will make it seem, but, I think that a lot of entrepreneurs are looking for some sort of edge and something that they can do immediately. So my question is this: is there a couple of things, or if, what are a couple of things that like a business owner can do by themselves immediately that will increase their sales prospecting?

Dan: Just more prospecting.

Joel: That sounds easy.

Dan:  that’s where the grit comes in. Right? Like, to be honest, to make a telephone call, doesn’t take that long because maybe it’ll be a one minute call, but the outcome of the call is where you want it to be valuable. So planning your call ahead of time.

And then making that call I think is, is a good thing to do because, if you. Have it planned ahead, then you won’t feel like you’re coming up with things on the spot or accidentally promising something that maybe you shouldn’t have promised because you will under deliver for the price that you promised or, or maybe also, yeah, so I think, I think prospecting and what’s something that somebody can do to increase their, their sales right away.

So prospecting number one, and then after prospecting getting more grit because when you’re prospecting, maybe you took a one-hour time block. Oftentimes people will book one hour of time locking, but instead of calling for one hour and making, making calls, they’re checking Facebook, you’re looking at your emails.

you go and get some water, whatever. I made some coffee I’m guilty. Oh, wow. I did one hour of prospecting. No, you spent the 60 seconds on the phone making one call and then you. You left. So, that, the grit of, if you feel like you want to stop, the dedication, perseverance, and grit to, to go forward and also for somebody who.

I think for, for you, if you are really believe in what you’re providing is valuable for your clients, then, I think also knowing that you are helping people, you’re not selling them, you’re helping them, so selling, being, trying to manipulate and helping being you’re helping solve one of their problems.

And when you know that you’re helping them, then you, you. If they say no, it’s like, well, I would really like to help you. This is your internal talk. I’d really like to help you. And if you don’t want to work with me for now, that’s okay. But maybe I’ll check back in the future because I know this would really improve your life quality, whether it be making your business easier in some way, or making your life easier in some way.

And, so I think that’s. That’s definitely something that people can implement right away is your self-talk your increasing your grit and, also doing more prospecting.

Joel: How do you get over the fear of rejection? Because I think that’s one of the main reasons people don’t do the prospecting.

They don’t want to be rejected. They don’t want to feel that like that icky thing in their stomach. So is there a way that people can get over that?

Dan: Well, the easiest way to get over it is to hire somebody else like sales strategy, not CA to do that, to do it for you, but if, if you’d prefer to do it yourself to get over that icky feeling of feeling rejected, I don’t think there’s any way to get over.

The icky feeling of feeling rejected, but when you have grit and when you have positive, self-talk of saying, Hey, you know what, you’re really helping the people that you provide the service to, then that you have a mission worth suffering a little bit for, and, also to know, yeah, to really just to know what you’re doing it for and to make sure that that is.

Greater than the feeling of whatever it happens to be like for, for me, I don’t have that same, way of looking at it for me. I, I believe there’s a couple going back to Christian faith. Again, there’s the, great commission of, of sharing the gospel and, there’s also the great management commission lead out in Genesis one.

Okay. And basically that’s, I’m not going to really try and paraphrase it, but essentially it’s being a good steward over what God has given you stewardship over. And, for me personally, I believe, When I felt that God wanted me to start a sales business, that that stewardship is in helping, organizations or businesses or government agencies.

Increase their impact by connecting them with other people and helping them close opportunities to provide more of a positive impact. S for me, like what I do is I make sure I’m selling something of real value. And, then I also know that I’m doing things for God rather than for man.

And so that, that weight is much higher to continue going then the negative feeling of, suffering when I get rejected on the phone, frequently, frequently. Yeah.

Joel: Well, I’m going to wrap it up with maybe one last question and this is something I ask all my guests and that is, do you have a favourite book or a book that has influenced your life?

Dan: Yeah. So I think, business-wise again, coming back to Bible, the book of Proverbs, I feel it’s filled with wisdom and sound business principles. I’ve read it over and over and different translations. And each time I learned something, something new that I should be implementing and, also, I really like Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink about leadership and, discipline.

And, yeah, those are, I would say my two favourite books right now.

Joel: So, so the Bible what’s, what business principles do you get from it? Cause I’m curious about this.

Dan: I have over here, let’s see here. I have to take off my headphones for one second.

I, my sister for Christmas gave me this, Proverbs like illustrated version, which is kind of cool. And, basically like when you’re, when you’re reading through the book, province, it’s like in the first chapter, it says like in the second verse, it says this, first and second, these are the Proverbs of Solomon David’s son King of Israel.

their purpose is to teach people wisdom and discipline to help them understand the insights of the wise. And their purpose is to teach people to live disciplined and successful lives to help them do what is right. Just and fair. So I would say the book of Proverbs is. Kind of like a lot of common-sense stuff that a Jewish father would pass on to a Jewish son or daughter.

And, so these are, these are a lot of like, common, I guess, common sense. That’s not common principles. And, I’ve I found great value in, in learning from those Proverbs. So I would say, I wouldn’t do it justice describing it, but, hopefully that’s piqued your interest enough to, check it out and see, see what chapters my favorite are they the beginning, I think like seven or eight books in the last seven or eight, the meaning middle part is a little bit tougher to, to get through.

But, the beginning of the end, definitely you can apply a lot of that stuff to your business right away, and you will see a difference.

Joel: So I know I said that was going to be the last question, but I have one follow-up and that, so, so the quote you just read, what, what do you get from that? What what’s is it.

Does it go back to grit or what meaning do you take from it?

Dan: So let’s see here. So I think let’s see if I can find, a good one here, which is,

I think, like, for example, here, like this, this is a good example of, I guess. For, for people who often want to really follow their own advice rather than listening to others. So from verses eight and nine, it says, my child, listen, when your father corrects you don’t neglect your mother’s instruction.

When you learned from them, what you learned from them will crown you with grace and be a chain of honor around your neck. So to me, that that looks like, when you’re getting advice from other people, don’t discount it right away, and also make sure that the people who are giving you advice that you’re listening to.

have your best interest in mind. And the thought I think there is that your mother and father do have the best interest in mind. So you want to make sure that when you’re getting advice, you’re getting advice from people who do have your best interest in mind and, also in this case, I think, traditionally in the, biblical times, the father and a father would be essentially running the family business, whatever it might be like, for example, Being a shepherd and then, the sons would grow up, learning their father’s business.

So when you are listening to the father or listening to somebody who really knows their craft really well, And they also have your best intentions, don’t ignore their advice. So I think those are some good, good things to Milan and that’s certainly two verses so it’s a lot of nice, good advice in there.

And, if people are not following this advice already to you, don’t seek somebody who really has a great knowledge in, in their craft. that also, has, their best interest in mind. I think that’s, you want more of those people on your team definitely to mentor you, or you can ask them advice from time to time.

Joel: Well, I think that’s a great place to end that then. Thank you so much for being on the show, for people who want to reach out to you who want to learn more about sales, where can they find you?

Dan: Yeah, they can find me@salesstrategy.ca or they can also send me an email at, to dan@salesstrategy.ca and that’s, that’s sales strategy.ca.

Joel: And I know being on the receiving end of several sales calls from you, they’re super effective, and I, I think a lot of us get sales calls all the time, but yours really stand out as excellent. And yeah. Obviously purchased many products from you over the years, highly recommend you to all my listeners. So definitely email him, definitely check out his website.

Dan: Thanks, Joel. Appreciate it.

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