Cindy Tschosik | Dealing With Depression and Anxiety By Giving It A Voice

I spoke with ghostwriter and professional speaker Cindy Tschosik about how she dealt with her anxiety and depression and how she turned it into a focus which she now uses to help those in need by telling their stories and inspiring others. A lifelong writer and creative, Cindy excels at connecting with her clients’ hearts, enabling her to capture their voice, identify their true value, and articulate the unique message they bring to the world.

Shownotes:

Links
website: https://soconnectedllc.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cindytschosik

Twitter: https://twitter.com/cindytschosik?lang=en

Youtube Interview: https://youtu.be/5ufqkIcHzf0

The publishing for profit podcast is brought to you by ghostwritersandco.com earned more money by publishing better content and learn how do we increase your thought leadership? So you can build your brand head over to ghostwritersandco.com for more information that’s ghost writersandco.com. And now your host Joel Mark Harris

Joel: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, this is Joel Mark Harris, your host. And today we interview an amazing ghostwriter and entrepreneur seduce. She is the president of So Connected her ghostwriter company, and she primarily works in the health and wellness space which I think is incredibly important in these times of COVID to, hear stories about how people are struggling through these times through depression, anxiety, Cindy tells us about her own struggles.

And it’s a very inspirational story, really amazing to hear her speak about it. And hopefully I think it will give you inspiration and some advice on how we can all get through this together. Cindy has a background in marketing and so we also talk about some marketing strategies that you can use in your own business.

So very wide wide-ranging conversation with Cindy.

Hello, Cindy. Welcome to the show. How are you today?

Cindy: I’m doing really well. Thank you so much Joel for having me. It’s a pleasure.

Joel: So I want to start off, you’ve been very open about your depression. Can you tell us a little bit about that journey where you are today?

Cindy: Sure of course I’d be happy to. The journey, I didn’t know I was on a journey for depression. It kind of came up in a weird kind of way. I was having a really, really rough summer in 2008 and did not realize what I was experiencing and feeling and living with depression until a friend of mine was on the back deck with me.

And, I was explaining to her that I was having a rough summer. I was sleeping. I didn’t want to get out of bed really. I was crying all the time and I was obsessed about staining the deck that we had been sitting on. And I was isolating from my friends, just saying no to all the offers to go to the pool with the kids and those types of things.

And, one of the key signs that I found now is that I felt like I was a very, very tight rubber band. And at any moment I could have snapped. So when I shared this with her, she leaned in and she said, I hope you don’t mind me saying this, but I think you might be depressed. And my response was, what do I have to be depressed about?

I have a great husband. I have great kids. I have this house, we have food on our table. We have clothes on our back and that’s when it started. And she further explained that it wasn’t like that it wasn’t an emotion that I can control. It wasn’t a feeling. It was a medical issue, which now they call medical diseases and from mental health, challenges and, that it was like diabetes and high cholesterol.

And, that it wasn’t something that I can control because it was a chemical imbalance. And so that’s how that conversation went.  It started to make sense. She had shared with me that with her symptoms, she is like a raving witch with a ‘B’ and all the time. And so that’s when she knows she needs to get some help.

And she made me promise to go to my doctor and I did. And sure enough, I did the assessment and she said that I was showing depression. And how did I want to treat it? We’ve talked over the options and I opted because I had been going through it for so long and I was in a really bad spot that I wanted to try the medication. And so I did.

Joel:  I think it’s probably something that you can recognize easier in somebody else, but it’s a lot harder to spot in your own thought process in your own behaviour. So what are some symptoms of depression?

Cindy: That’s a great question because it really shows itself differently in each one of us. Men and women have different symptoms as well as the symptoms that I just shared with you about what I went through are some, some people don’t get out of bed. Some people sleep oversleep over, eat under, eat over exercise, under exercise. they feel like they are going to snap or break, or have a mental breakdown.

They don’t have to be that severe. I think they start off lighter, you’re not quite feeling yourself. There’s like this feeling you’re feeling off and then you start to feel more off and then more off. And then all of a sudden, like you’re not feeling like yourself anymore.

And for me, that was definitely true. And I just figured it was my new norm. I had kids who were, my daughter was six and my twin bores were five. And I just thought it was part of being a mom and a business owner and working and everything. And so it was really shocking that that’s what it ended up being because it is hard to diagnose it in ourselves or even recognize it.

And others you would think it’d be easier, but if we don’t know the symptoms and what to look for, so some of the information I share as always if you recognize that someone is not quite themselves and it lasts two weeks or longer, The that’s the key that person needs help.  If they’re not being themselves, if they feel, seem very stressed or sad or angry show up in men a lot, with depression, they’ll exhibit signs of anger, rage, frustration, repeatedly for two weeks or longer. And then it’s time to get some help with that.

Joel: And so is the next step going to a doctor or what can you do?

Cindy:  So the first thing is if you’re feeling not yourself or noticing that someone else is not themselves, just recognizing acknowledging that and then tracking back to where when did you start first?

Feeling like this and has it been two weeks and that’s the standard protocol for knowing that you do that it’s getting in a spot where you do need medical intervention of some store and so once you recognize that if it’s in yourself you make an appointment to see the doctor as soon as possible.

And when you get to the doctor, they’ll do an assessment, which is just a list of questions they’ll ask. And then they’ll, you know tally it up and it’ll say, you know what, where you’re at on the spectrum of depression or anxiety, symptoms for depression and anxiety can mimic each other or be very similar.

So, and sometimes they go together so that’s always interesting to find that out. And then the doctor will give you some options of what you can do for me, it was medic medicine and then psychotherapy, which is talk therapy and that helped quite a big deal. Within three days I felt like the rubber band had more broom and I was able to breathe once I got on the medication.

And then, and then within 10 days I felt like myself, which was very surreal because I wasn’t myself. So that’s really tough. Now if it’s someone you’re trying to help some of the things sometimes we don’t know what to say. And so if we know what to say, we can approach it generally.

So my friend just leaned in and said I hope you don’t mind me asking or mentioning this, but I think you might be depressed. That’s always a nice way to do it. It worked for me sometimes. it’s just a matter of saying, you know, I, I see the things that are kind of tough for you, right? Is there something I can do to help you.

And how long has this been going on and just opening it up and saying, I’m here for you. I’m listening. I want to help you. And if you need to spell it out for people because sometimes we don’t get it unless it’s spelled out for us, just say it, say what’s on your heart and just say, you know, I heard this woman.

A podcast or I read something and I think maybe this might be you and I really want you, I want you to promise me that you’ll go to the doctor today or tomorrow and really encourage that because it can get worse without us even knowing. And then things like suicidal ideation can come up. And then you’re in a whole nother level of darkness with this.

Joel: So you were mentioned that in 10 days you are feeling more like yourself. Were you able to sustain that feeling and how did you manage that?

Cindy: Yes. So the medication is amazing. They have all different types of medication. And for me, the first medication worked, some people have to go through a couple of different medications and that can be a little frustrating or concerning.

But when you find the right medication, it is so worth it because it wasn’t myself. My husband thought something was off and then he just attributed it to the kids and just work and all kinds of different things. We can always make excuses for something, for how we’re feeling or behaving.

There’s always something we can come up with and we’re not accustomed to recognizing something off with our brains or emotions as much as we would, you know, back pain or sore knee or bad shoulder, right. That screams and tells us something’s wrong. We have to go to the doctor, but it’s hard to identify those behaviours and outcomes that we have when we’re depressed or have anxiety or have other mental health issues. so, so when I felt more like myself, well, first of all, within the three, three days of taking the medicine and being less. Max out, and ready to snap and shatter. I felt like I had succumbed a little bit.

Like I was like, Oh my gosh, like I can actually breathe a little bit. And then the 10 days when I felt more like myself. I mentioned it was so real. I wasn’t myself, but I was able to smile and laugh and just realize that life wasn’t ending. And I didn’t have to be this raging, you know, mom who, cause I did have some of that.

My poor kids, who is struggling with just everything and not able to focus and not wanting to be with their friends. those are all clear signs that something is off. So it was, it was nice to smile and feel like the weight of the world wasn’t on me and that I could just have a better life.

Joel: Yeah. So I definitely commend you for speaking out about this subject because I know it’s incredibly difficult. When was it that you decided that I just need to share this and help other people?

Cindy: Oh, that’s a great question. Thank you for asking that. It actually was, the last time I had planned to end my life. So in 2014, I life was going fabulously. It was just amazing. We had just finished three vacations. I was feeling the best I’ve ever felt, and I decided to go off my medication and within three and a half weeks, things were starting to unravel a bet.

I wasn’t catching on yet. I was still going through the motions and just kind of doing my daily stuff and everything. And I found myself really, really struggling when my whole family was at a time, my husband was on a golf trip. The kids were at grandma’s for the weekend and I was supposed to have this great weekend on my own doing whatever I wanted, relaxing, whatever, but because I had been off the medication and I didn’t really, and it was without doctor approval or a supervision, which I learned then that’s really important to get is if you want to go whenever your mitigation, you should probably get, I’m sorry, not should you would need to get medical professional guidance. so I, all of a sudden they were all gone and I was having a rough day.

It was almost seven o’clock mass was starting at church and I decided to go to church but I didn’t quite know how to get there. And it’s three minutes from my house and we go every Sunday. So it was kind of strange. I ended up parking and downtown. which was at least a mile away from the church.

And I walked to church and of course, I was late. and within 15 minutes of being in church, I was sobbing and I left and I’m like, I can’t do this anymore. The pain is too much. This world will be better off without me and these thoughts just kept coming in my head. I’m worthless.  I wasn’t important. My family doesn’t need me. it was just horrible. It was awful. And the negative thoughts wouldn’t stop. And then I walked out of church and I forgot where I parked my car. So then they start wandering around and, I find it in downtown and it was right by the local cemetery.  I don’t know what it was just a fun fact, but when it was by the cemetery, I was still sobbing.

I so wanted someone to just stop me and ask me if I was okay, because I really it was earlier than seven 30 in the morning. The people I thought to call, I knew were still sleeping or had young babies. and I also kind of felt like they would never understand, like they just wouldn’t understand what I was thinking or why or whatever.

And again, it had nothing to do with how I feel or what I think. It really is a medical condition, right? So again, the car and I’m sobbing all the way home and on the way home, I’m thinking of all these different ways to add my life, I’m not going to go into them because I don’t want to put any ideas in people’s heads.

But it definitely was possible and I was planning it. And so I got home and my whole thing is my, there was a neighbour that ended his life by suicide when I was young and I think I was maybe 12 or 13 and I just remembered my mom saying like, feeling just horrible for the family. But the thing that she said that stuck in my head was that.

Why did he have to do it at home or they would find him? And I know that’s grim and that’s dark but she was just so worried for the wife and the kids and for whatever reason that stuck in my head. And maybe that was what I was supposed to hear. So I would never do that. And I just kept thinking, like, I don’t know who’s going to find me, you know, I don’t want it to be my husband or my kids.

And so I just kept thinking that. So I sat down, because I know if I took any more steps, I would end up doing something. And, I, sat down and I was in this job, locked myself in the chair. not literally, mentally and just, physically kind of just planted myself there and wouldn’t let myself get up.

And I just, I cried for like three hours. I was just crying and trying to fight this and, and, you know, going through all the ideas and, and, I look up and the son had passed over the south side.  There was like no direct light coming in. And my, I look up and in the middle of the living room, there’s like this beam of yellow light.

It was just a sliver, but it was a beam of light that had no source. And I just kept, I was mesmerized by it for one, like, how the heck did it get there? And then number two, Just just focused on it to get my thought, you know, and say, well, what is this doing here? And what you know is happening. And all of a sudden I started thinking, you know, on the other side of that light life is better.

It’s brighter and you deserve that and you need to get to that. And so I cried some more. And, started, you know, thinking about the things I loved and the people who love me and just going through that and trying to infuse myself with positivity then of course with any beam of light, a lot of us think that. It’s a spirit or it’s God, or, you know, our higher powers.

When I got through that, I’m like, okay. So my next step needs to be that I get back on my meds, you know? Because then I had figured out why I was feeling this way. I’m like, Oh my gosh, I haven’t had my meds since the beginning of the month. And here I am. And so when they say have suicidal tendencies or thoughts of suicide, they’re not joking, you know with medication.

And so, I looked at the light and I got up and I’m like, well first let me share when you are at that moment this is what I learned, and this is what was the precipice for me to talk about this. Okay. What I learned was that when you were at that moment where you want to take your own life, you are in the darkest place ever imaginable that you can’t even imagine.

And there are so much pain. There’s so much excruciating pain. That the only reason that you think the only way out is to take your life. And that is so profound to me that I was able to be there to recognize the darkness and the pain. And then by God’s grace, a light formed and I was able to start thinking a different way.

And so there’s so much I have in my heart and mind from that experience. And as I got up. I knew in my heart that I would be talking about this Sunday. And that is the long story of why I share my story, is because of that moment, that was the moment I knew that I was put on this earth to help other people understand this and be able to take care of themselves so they could have a better life and be more like themselves.

Joel: Well, thank you so much for sharing. That’s quite profound. Thank you. so I find that with COVID that when we’re not able to see, you know, a loved ones, a family, we’re not allowed to do the things that normally we do. That it really takes a mental toll on people. I’ve seen this with my friends.

I’ve seen this with my family and I’ve definitely seen it with myself because. You know, re we were talking earlier, you really does feel like Groundhog Day and there’s days where I just don’t want to get up. And I don’t feel like doing anything. And I’m not generally like that, you know, but it’s been pretty much almost a year of this where we’re, if there’d been some sort of lockdown, would’ve been some sort of restrictions.

I’m just worried. I don’t know, like if you have the pulse on it, but I just noticed in observations and what people are sharing on social media, that definitely, it feels like a people are being very impacted and in ways, I guess governments are not. Me even like taking into account right there.

You know, a lot of people are rightfully so worried about the w about the COVID about the virus. We’re not taking in the mental. And now the mental side of it, the, ability to, to go out and live. And so I guess my, my question is have you seen because you’re again, I think you are so much closer than I am, but have you seen a difference in people’s mental health in the last year with COVID?

Cindy: Absolutely. I have, for sure we’re all suffering. There’s no one out there who isn’t. I’ve heard from people who never even. You know, walked a close line to being depressed and, never had it in their family who are suffering and, they found themselves in similar situations of where I was. And then also, you know, symptom mild or symptoms, but still impactful. So I believe I would be surprised if there was one. Person that was not suffering in some way, shape or form. And the spectrum of, depression and anxiety is so lie, right?

We have days that we can have the blues or we’re having a bad day or we’re feeling depressed. And then you have the parts where that those feelings, those experiences are lasting longer and longer. And then all of a sudden, you know, you know, you’re getting more into, you know, more serious behaviours, more serious feelings, withdrawal and all those things and then hopefully we’re not getting to the dark, dark side of suicidal ideation. But it can go anywhere from, you know, blues to suicidal ideation to hospitalization. So, and hopefully the hospitalization is prior and you don’t get to the other part, but, so it’s tough. It’s tough to recognize it in ourselves.

And that’s why it’s so such an honor to be here today with you to share this because it really what I speak on is the symptoms. Solutions and sound bites of helping ourselves and others, to connect the dots, the mental wellness. So you ask such great questions. And, the, so in the States, depression, mental health disorders have been increased by 30% and, as well as divorce rates have increased significantly, right?

So we’re seeing the results of that being depression and, and also being divorced, having oper, having the divorce has happened. We’re seeing it and kids who are homeschooling now or remote schooling, and we don’t have social interaction as much as we’re used to. And, And then we’re seeing adults who aren’t having social interaction extroverts are really struggling because they are all about, you know, being together with other people and working with other people.

So, you know, it’s across the board, someone’s suffering, you know, with something all over. And there’s, there are things that we can do to help ourselves. And there are things that we, you know, need to get help with. So one of the things, so let’s say you’ve been kind of down for a few days a couple of things that you could do on your own are to increase exercise or start exercising and it, you don’t have to be training for the Olympic.

But just going for a walk, you know, getting time out in nature, those are all wonderful activities that you can do that will increase, you know, the good hormones that give you, you know, more happiness. the nature as a natural healer where we’re breathing fresh air here in Chicago and Canada it’s a little colder, but it still is fresh air. And just the beauty of nature is very soothing and calming to the soul. There’s extra exercises, good drinking, extra water, staying away from things like sodas and alcohol is important. adding vegetables. Is also helpful. There’s so many benefits to do vegetables and it also kind of gives you a boost in how you feel about yourself because you’re taking good care of yourself.

There’s things like in journaling or self care, like maybe treating yourself to a massage or having someone at home massage your feet getting our haircuts. I mean, it went four months without haircuts at the beginning. and I felt like I had just renewed my entire life by getting my first hair cut after the COVID open.

So there’s things that we can do for self-care, an Epsom salt bath, just taking a day for yourself. I mean, one of my favorite pastimes is just taking a Sunday and my PJ’s watching television all day. So there’s just things like that and the thing that we need to remember is to tap into ourselves, into our hearts and souls and ask us what do I need?

And, so we can do those things. And so maybe by adding those few things, when you’re having the blues or a couple of rough days in a row, use those things to boost yourself. And then if you’ve tried those things and things. I still don’t feel quite right. You’re not feeling yourself. Things are maybe kind of getting a little bit worse then , and it lasts two weeks or longer, then it’s definitely time to see the doctor.

You know, and you don’t have to, you don’t have to be like the, at the worst end of the spectrum in order to go see the doctor, they would much rather be able to, to help you when it, things are just starting to turn, you know? And so don’t think like you have to be super depressed and not getting out of bed in order to go to the doctor, know, take care of it sooner, because then you can feel more like yourself and, and enjoy life and, you know, get, get the help you need.

Joel: I think that’s why that’s very important, you know, to give yourself permission to seek help, because I think like you said, I could always be worse. I could be, you know, worse and, and solely you go down that hole and then you realize you’re very, very far down there and it’s hard to climb back up.

Cindy: It is. And so one of the things that I have a video series that I do called mental health check with Cindy T and it’s where I, you know, help people understand, you know, what, what the symptoms look like, what the solutions are. Things to say to ourselves or what are other people saying? And, so taking mental wellness checks throughout the day, like brushing your teeth or tying your shoes are just as important as brushing your teeth.

And you’re looking both ways when you cross the street. And basically that’s just taking a second, you know, 15 seconds saying, okay, how am I feeling taking in a deep breath, exhale, how am I feeling? What am I feeling? You know, am I, am I struggling now? And what is it that I need? Right. So many of us are used to like taking care of everybody else.

We forget to ask, what is it I need? Okay. I need 15 minutes of quiet in the farthest corner of the house. I need a walk. I need. To just stare into space. You know, I need a shower, you know, just things like that. Just 15 minutes segments, we can do that. And so you just take like 30 seconds and if you need something, do it right.

Make it, you know, make sure it’s healthy, make sure it’s within your, you know, your goals for your life and make sure that it’s going to give feed you. What you need to shift out of that space. And if you’re finding that you’re not able to shift out of the space, see your doctor.

Joel: And how many times a day should you do that?

Cindy: I would say at least two. And I would recommend three because there’s so much stuff going on during the day. I mean, we’re taking care of ourselves when we get up, we just getting ready for the day. We might have partners, spouses, kids, pets, workers, bosses. We might be the boss. There’s just so much that comes in and out of our day that we forget to even breathe sometimes.

And all of a sudden it’s four o’clock. And I don’t know where the hours went. Cause I was so busy working or dealing with family or friends or whatever it is that brings our day about, And so I, I like to do it in the morning. Okay. How am I feeling today? What is my day gonna look like? What am I excited about?

What am I looking forward to?  I’m not feeling so great, like I’m really going to struggle here. and what am I going to do to change that? And then mid-day somewhere, right. Sometimes when we’re wrapped up or we’re angry about something or we’re losing our feet, you know, or, or fuses are short and we’re losing our temper earlier, we’re feeling sad or something, you know, just comes in, kind of hits us in an odd way.

I like a midday check, just to make sure, you know, on the path. I’m on the path and this is all for people who have depression or don’t have depression or have anxiety, or don’t, it doesn’t matter if you do or don’t. And this is just good all around because of what we’re going through, especially.

And then at night, you know, we, after dinner, during dinner, before dinner, whenever whatever works for you and your schedule where you feel like a mental health check would be really good to check in with your mental loneliness. Do it, you could do it every hour if you need to but just take, we need to remember to take care of ourselves.

Joel: Yes. Self-care is so, so important. It is. I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about your ghostwriting how did you get into the profession?

Cindy: These are like journeys that you don’t even ever expect. Right? So, first of all, my high school English teacher always said I would be a writer and I didn’t think being a writer could be, you know, something I made a living in, you know, definitely something I always loved doing.

And, so it was always in the back of my head. So as I grew older, I was like, you know what, now you retire. What I want to do is I want to ghostwrite books on a beach. And it’s a great dream. Right? So in 2013, I opened my own business as a marketing agency where I, Gosh, I did everything you could think of.

I did web development. I did social media management, digital advertising, got content, writing, blog, writing, article writing, jeez all kinds of things. And throughout that process, you know, my whole idea was when I, when I retire, I’m going to ghost ghostwrite. Well, then I started thinking about it.

I’m in the communications business now, why couldn’t I write books in my marketing agency? So as. Luck would have it, chance would have it God’s plan, whatever you want to call it. I, I went for a facial one day, a little self care back in 2013, actually it was 16 and the esthetician was really interested in writing a book.

And so I, I said, well, I’m a ghostwriter because I was, I was ghostwriting articles all the time and, and all kinds of things. And, and I just hadn’t done a book for him. And so we talked and she hired me and it was my first book. And then she referred me to someone else. It was my second book.

And both of those published in 2017. And then in 2018, it was kind of this space with my marketing agency that, you know, things were a little crazy taking over my life and everything. And so I started to evaluate things and I decided, you know, what. Out of everything that I’m doing now, I love ghostwriting, that’s what I want to do when I retire.

So why not start now? So I talked to all my clients and all my clients said, that’s fine. Go with where your dreams are. We can find somebody else. And, in that process I worked with, several speakers were my clients. So I was doing a lot of marketing for them. And, and so that’s kind of how I got involved in the speaking part of it.

But, I switched to ghost ghostwriting full-time by the end of 2018. And I’ve been doing it ever since and, and it’s been wonderful. It’s a dream life as far as like what I love to do, and I’m not saying that it doesn’t come with struggles. I mean, we all struggle, but, I couldn’t be happier. So it’s, it’s a good space for me.

Joel: So it was coming from a marketing communications background help you in your ghost ghostwriting?

Cindy: It helps tremendously. My authors are very, relaxed to hear that it kind of led, I always see like this breath of fresh air, like, okay. She understands she gets it because marketing is, is the fourth phase of book writing.

It’s the manuscript and it’s in the design and then it’s the publishing and then it’s marketing and you’re not going to sell books without marketing. I stuck people along in that in that. Journey, you know, I’m able to say, okay, so here are some ideas for marketing or, you know, answer their questions, brainstorm with them, with what they’d like to do for their own marketing efforts and because they worked with the speakers, it gives me. I’m a speaker myself and then also involved in the National Speakers Association. It just kinda gives me a different foundation and approach and ability to consult them. Especially when I write books for speakers and other professionals, you know, I can give them a well-rounded, a well-rounded outlook and perspective, you know, what can be done and why they want to write this book and what’s going to happen with the book in addition to that, I have 25 years of experience and, gosh, legal it corporate. Tech nonprofit development. You know, I was like kind of, I did whatever was interesting to me at the time. And I shifted around a lot and played a lot of roles.

Joel: So for somebody who’s already written the book, what’s some good tactics to market?

Cindy: You have to talk about it. You have to be your own squawk box. you know, somehow tie in any social media posts, do videos about it. you could write short blogs about each of the chapters. you can, you know, talk to PR agency to see if you could do a press release. it really, I mean, social media really helps us so much and gives us such a broader reach than ever before.

Just like self publishing has, you know, given us the opportunity to be able to publish our books without going through the traditional publishers. so there’s, there’s opportunities everywhere. talk to your local bookstore and see if they’ll allow you to have a book sign. Might be a little tough now with the pandemic and restrictions, but things are going to open up and there’s going to be opportunities there, but, you know, look under, you know, look at everything you can possibly do.

If you don’t have, if you do holiday cards or any cards, take a picture of you with your book and say, Hey, I bought, you know, I finally wrote the book. I talked about my whole life, and give them the website address. So it’s all about you talking about it and, and, and, you know, inspiring people to purchase it because it’s going to change their life.

Joel: So during the course of my research for this interview, I came across one of your videos where you talk about web content. And I thought that it was great information. So I’m wondering, qhat as for somebody who is maybe struggling to create some web content for, for their website, or he wants to hire somebody, what are some tips for a business owner or somebody who just creating a website to create more impactful copy?

Cindy: You really did your research. Wait, where was that date on that video? Fortunately in content is important, no matter what comes from it’s especially relevant. Gosh, when I hear my marketing agency, you know, it was, you have three. Six seven seconds to entice somebody to keep scrolling. Right. So it was like, it was a mad rush to get them, you know, move the, move, the dial.

I believe that’s still the case probably more like two to four seconds. I would imagine. and content, the trends of content have changed actually, which is surprising. When I had my marketing agency, it was, and it still is relevant is to. Focus on the pain that you’re going to solve. What is the problem you’re going to solve for the people who come to your website and hire you for your products or your services that is always going to be relevant, whether you write about it in your content for your website, your articles, any advertising, any books, any speaking, you know, we always want to address?

What the audience or reader wants from us. So many people know about the w I F M. Acronym, which stands in what’s in it for me. And so you live by that when you do content, but not for you for them. That’s what they’re asking. What’s in it for me. Why should I spend two to four, two to four seconds to be on your website to possibly hire you?

And then, what’s important in that two to four seconds is that the graphics are beautiful. That there’s a clear message about what you offer to solve the pain point and who you are. And that is well-organized, that it makes sense. And it gives them a little bit of a taste of what bill gained from working with you or buying your products.

Joel: And then so skipping around a little bit, but, I’m, I’m interested in your writing process and how you think about when you sit down to write, how do you do it? And,

Cindy: Oh gosh. my writing process. All right. I have I don’t know how unique it is, but I have it’s very experiential for me. So whenever I’m working with an author, it is all about intentive listening and it’s me listening to them and really diving into where their heart is.

Like. I look at myself as the excavator for all the goodness that’s inside their heart that I need to pull out. And B when I do that, I’m able to really connect with them and really dive deep into the essence and the meaning and the message that they want their readers to get. So the first, the first step is always, intentively listening to the author, with ears as big as an elephant and a heart that’s open to whatever they want to share.

and it’s, it’s not about me at all, and there’s a time to interject and there’s times not to. And, there’s a famous quote. I can’t remember. Was it Lincoln? I can’t remember who said it, but it was something about I never learned anything by talking.

Joel: Sound sounds like a Lincoln.

Cindy: I just heard it recently. I’m like, Oh my gosh, that’s so true. So that’s the first step is always being openly available and listening and focused on what, who they are, what they’re saying and what their heart is saying. So that’s super important for my process. the next part is, digesting what they said, coming up with.

Sort of a summary or an understanding of what you took away from the conversation and then sharing it with them to make sure you’re on the right page. Then what happens is, you know, we’re saying that that conversation was most likely an interview or part of the discovery process, then it’s about, Writing like drafting the chapter.

So sometimes I have a book I’m working on right now that has 18 pages of notes from the interviews we’ve done for one chapter. And I have to go back and I have to outline it, or normally I could just start drafting it, on my computer. Some books need outlines for each chapter for me to kind of get my thoughts organized and everything. And then some are just I’m able to put it all in order and just start writing away, keeping in mind a client’s voice and their heart and their purpose and making sure that our chapter is achieving what we wanted to achieve for the readers and as far as like where, or when, ideally I would love to be a recluse.

On a beach in a one room shack in Mexico. It doesn’t matter where as long as it’s warm weather. and I just write all day, I’ve actually, this summer, right? Yeah. I had to get out of the house. And, and so I went away for like six days and I worked on a client’s book and I was working like I was writing 13 hours a day and it was.

But there’s no self-care, there’s no meals, there’s no exercise. So it’s not the healthiest thing, but I’m in my element. so since then I write, mostly in my office. A lot of times I’ve actually gone to the Arboretum, an Arboretum by the Morton salt company nearby. I’ve actually gone there when I really needed to focus on a book and I will just.

the restaurant is closed. I usually go to the restaurant, the beautiful restaurant with a beautiful view. And, so now I find the beautiful views within the parking lots and, back in, and I write in my car because I’d love to be surrounded by beauty and, and I just get in a zone and I’m in flow and I just start writing and it’s, it’s an extraordinary experience every time.

Joel: And so you like primarily work within the health and wellness space. How important is your experiences with your own, you know, depression and everything you just shared with us? How is that important, to bring into your work with others who want to share a similar experience in their writing?

Cindy: Yes. So, sometimes it’s important and sometimes it’s irrelevant. It all depends on the author because sometimes my experience isn’t. Going to help the author. Like it needs to be their experience. I only bring in my own stuff if I think it coincides with the author and what they’re trying to achieve and with what their readers would find value. So, and I, and I do that now that I, specifically right for professionals in psychology, influencers and mental wellness and mental health, and then performing artists who want to share their journey to, to how they achieve their mental.

Wellness. I do that now with these groups of people, just like I did when I was writing business books. So, you know, maybe my legal experience. could either help an attorney or another paralegal or someone who went through a legal situation, with the knowledge that I have, and maybe it doesn’t relate because it would jive up their manuscript and understory.

So in the, in the chances that it is a parallel, and helpful. addition to them, I always find that being able to tap into my own stuff. Helps me understand where the author’s coming from and what their reader can meet. But, and I, and most of the time that there is an opportunity for that, but I wait to make sure I don’t automatically assume that what I’ve been through is going to help them.

I make sure that it’s appropriate and it will help them during our original conversation. I might say. You know, I have experienced with depression, I have experienced with anxiety and suicidal ideation. So I understand your content. I understand your story. And I understand different ways that I might, I might be able to add value to what you’re saying, to give more value to your readers. So it’s very, it’s very, individual, and it has a, has a timing place. Hmm. Hmm.

Joel: So you mentioned a couple of times you’re a speaker, for somebody who has their own message to share it, and it could be anything, what is some tactics or some ways that they can, get better at speaking so they can share their own message?

Cindy: Oh, wow. That’s a great question. I swear. I do not pay you for this. I have my, Oh gosh, I, so my first speaking client was Colonel Joe Morgan feller, and she, unfortunately, passed away very early on in her life. just about almost two years ago, actually, it will be. Wow. Okay. It’s two years ago this month.

And, she is a phenomenal woman, a phenomenal soul. And, she was the one who really, encouraged me to speak. And I said, Oh, Joe, I’m happy behind my laptop. You know, I’m not speaking. You’ll never find me on the stage. And she said, Oh no, you’re going to start speaking within two years. Right. And this was.

Probably three years ago. I don’t know what she saw on me, but what she did do was she invited me to come to a chapter meeting for the national speakers association here and there one way. And Canada has caps, so they have Canadian, I don’t know what it stands for.

Joel: Maybe the association of something?

Cindy: National speakers. Exactly. I think we just made it up and if we didn’t, we made up our own, so let’s get to work. So she invited me and I am a marketing agency at the time and we, she brought me. And, and I was going to the chapter meetings and ended up at the national conference because I wanted to find out how I, as a business owner and a marketing agency owner could better serve my speakers.

It wasn’t about my speaking at all. And that lasted, that was in 2016. it was my first meeting and conference and that lasted about two years, 2018. And then, that was when I started to, open the door for possibility of speaking about mental health. So, because I knew when I got out of that chair back in 2004 team that I would be speaking, this suicide and depression and anxiety, well, actually not the anxiety piece, cause I hadn’t had an anxiety yet that didn’t come in until like the last four years.

But, so I knew, so I started putting pieces together about what I wanted to talk about and, what I have found that has accelerated my speaking career, and speaking knowledge and, and, an acumen is that. We, when we surround ourselves with the people we want to be most like is when we become who we’re supposed to be.

And national speakers association has been an integral part of my speaking journey. the Illinois chapter has been a tremendous. Opportunity for my own personal and professional growth. And I have learned so much from so many people at, at NSA, who I continue to learn from. And there are, what’s so wonderful about it is it’s such a large association that, There’s a hundred thousand different ways to do your speaking career as well as speak on stage or virtually.

And because a lot of us are speaking virtually and it’s all personalized to what you want. You know, don’t copy anybody else. Just be who you are because there’s a match and an audience who needs you just as you are.

Joel: So to get started, would you recommend start like starting with the organization and networking, or should you do like Toastmasters or, you know, are there another option?

Cindy: Oh, there’s, there are so many options and really it is about what the best fit for you is. Lots of people have started with Toastmasters and gone on to become very, Very, gosh, I don’t want to, I just very well, very successful speakers. Right. There’s Toastmasters, which focuses on your skills at speaking and then there are speaking organizations that are local to you. And then there are speaking organizations that are local that have national, associations, you know, heading it up. And for me, I liked the idea of being in a local. Association that had an umbrella of multiple state associations as well as an overarching association to run it.

With national speakers associations what’s great about that group and possibly cats is that they have what’s called the Speakers Academy and the speakers Academy focuses on building the business of speaking. So when you’re looking to become a speaker. it’s not just about what you say and how you say it on stage or in virtual settings.

It’s about what you’re doing behind the scenes to drum up the business and the speaking opportunities, how, how you’re doing your marketing, how you’re doing your presentations, how you’re reaching out to different people who might be hiring speakers and your, topic. there’s just a whole slew of, Business knowledge that you need to know specifically for speakers, like, what other, revenue streams can I build-out?

What other areas can I promote? what do I do with, the context that I have? So there’s just a, a billion gazillion ways to build a speaking business and, and focusing on the things that you love to do.

Joel: What is some things to start off a speaking business?

Cindy:  Well, let’s see, definitely getting to know what’s out there. maybe the topics that are most needed that you find relevant to you and your experiences. That would be the first step I would take would be like, okay. So what are the topics that meeting planners are looking for right now? And do I have stories and do I have lessons?

And do I have takeaways to build a presentation around that topic from my own life experience or professional experience? And then once you find that out, the next thing would be to. You know, work on the presentation itself. I would definitely recommend getting engaged at some level somewhere with other speakers.

So you can get the support you need and then learn how to do it even better because there’s a lot of mistakes we make. And when we surround ourselves with people who have been through it before we can save a lot of time heartache and money so that’s how, that’s how I would look to start off my speaking business and career, and I would not quit my day job.

He takes, they’ve done studies and it takes somewhere between four and seven years. To, to really be in a spot where people are hiring you to pay. So not to say that you won’t get paid for the first four years, but it’s, it’s a, it’s a growing process. It’s a learning process. And, you evolve over time and it’s always learning. That was one of the things I loved about Colonel Jill here. She was at the peak of her career, just killing it and people loving her and, and hiring her and her them reaching out to her to hire her. And she was on the moth radio, which is this really cool radio station that does, That has speakers come on and they vote on the winner and she was getting asked to go to New York.

And, so she was really at the peak of her career, but, and she never stopped learning. She was always looking to improve. She was. Always looking to get feedback on a new, you know, a bit that she wanted to put in her presentation. and, and that’s where she found, the professional level Toastmasters group.

Very, very, helpful, because she would go in, she’d do her five minutes. They would give her feedback and she would just soak it in, apply it, and then boom, you know, it was ready to go. And, and that is why she was. Where she was was that she never stopped learning. She never stopped improving. So it’s a continuous, continuous journey, continuous process.

Joel: so I’m going to cap it off there with one last question. Thank you, Cindy. So much for being on the show today and for sharing your story. I think that’s, you know, I, I know it’s going to help a lot of people.

Cindy: I hope so. That’s why I do this. I hope someone is helped by it.

Joel: So my last question is what is your favourite book or one that you like to gift a lot?

Cindy: Oh boy. well ‘Eat, Pray, Love’ is my favourite book about the romance of it. I just, the romance and mystery and the entry. it’s just such a beautiful book. It just seems to my soul. and, and I just love her vulnerability and Ron, and then a book I gift a lot as I, have authors who become clients. I give them a book about marketing, their self-published book.

By Stephanie Chandler. It’s one of my favourites to gift and marketing is always one of those wonders of what they should do when they should do it. And how and Stephanie does a beautiful job at sharing that with, authors. So that’s the one I get the most. there are lots of other books I love, but Eat, Pray, Love is always at the top.

Joel: Awesome. And for people who want to reach out to connect with you, where’s the best place to do it?

Cindy: Cindy@soconnectedllc.com and it’s C I N D Y. Or they could go to my website, so connected llc.com.

Joel: Awesome. Well, thank you, Cindy, and have yourself a great day.

Cindy: Thank you, you too. So I will. Thank you so much. Thank you.