Aaron D’Souza | Business Lessons From A Dating Coach

In this episode, I interview Aaron D’Souza, a Dating Coach about skills you need to find a successful date and how they can be transferred and applied to your business. Some of the topics we cover include the importance of being a lifelong learner, how to handle rejection, how to have a mindset that will help you achieve your goals, and how to find out what you really want.

Links:

Aaron’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/aaron.dsouza.169067

Aaron’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaron-d-souza-21258140/

Link to the book Aaron mentioned: https://www.amazon.com/MODE-ONE-Women-REALLY-Thinking-ebook/dp/B004WPOHDU

The publishing for profit podcast is brought to you by Ghostwriters and Co. Earn more money by publishing better content and learn how to increase your thought leadership so you can build your brand. Head over to ghostwritersandco.com for more information that’s ghostwritersandco.com.

And now your host, Joel Mark Harris.

Joel: Hello and welcome to the publishing for profit podcast. This is your host Joel Mark Harris. Today we are talking to Aaron D’Souza, who is a dating coach for women. Aaron talks about his entrepreneurial journey and how he started his business. We talk a lot about the skills you need to find the perfect date.

And although that may seem like a very strange subject to talk about on this podcast, it’s actually very applicable to wherever you are in life and business. As you will hear, Aaron has a stutter which he has battled since he was at an early age. He joined Toastmasters to overcome his social anxiety and to become a better communicator.

One of his highlights was to speak in front of over 300 people. So as you can tell, he became quite an effective communicator. Aaron’s words will surely inspire you and they will help you in whatever challenges you are facing in your journey today so without further ado here is Aaron. Thank you so much for being on the show. How are you?

Aaron: I’m great, Joel. Thank you for having me on here.

Joel: It’s great to reconnect. It’s been awhile and I was kind of thinking back, I feel like I’ve known you forever. We met at Toastmasters, which we will be talking about later and some of the fond memories there, but I want to start off with your dating coach.

And so I want to let you know, honestly, I don’t know much about it. I’ve never hired a dating coach, although I probably could have used one when I was single. But what is the dating coach?

Aaron: I would say a dating coach has three main features. I think the first one is if someone has reached out to them, a thing that, you know what we have some challenges in our dating life. The three main features of a dating coach are one the need to identify what the challenges are not just at the surface level, but at a deep level because everyone is unique. So the first one is identifying their challenges and what they want. The second big feature of a dating coach is how they help their clients develop skills because dating is about developing skills, right?

To ultimately get what you want. So that’s the second feature. And the third feature is doing the best to make sure that the client gets the result because that’s the ultimate goal of any coach, whether it’s dating or sports or whatever field that you’re in, the goal is to help you get a result.

So those three features, I’ll say, first one to help the client identify what they want and what their challenges are. The second is to help them build skills, that will help them get what they want. And the third is to have them make sure that they actually get what they want. So those privileges make apart a good dating coach does.

Joel: Yes. You always need to get the results in any, anything really? What can you walk me through? Like, what is a typical clients like because I know you work primarily with women or exclusively with women, if a woman comes to you and says, I need help in this, in my dating life, I’m not getting anywhere. What does that process look like?

Aaron: I have, overall set process.  So it’s two to five steps, depending on who I’m with. The first one is as I had mentioned getting to know the client or my friend because I’ve mostly been coaching my friends over the past few years, it’s getting a very clear understanding of what they want and what their challenges are.

So as an example, a big challenge that many of my female friends have shared with me is that, Oh, we’re part of this social group and there’s this guy that we like, he has not taken any action to ask us out for a first date. And now it’s been months and we still like him, what should we do?

So that’s a very basic one and then my goal now is to help them build scale. So that’s the second step is to help them see that, it’s totally fine for you to actually be the one to go up to them and be like, you know what? I like to meet you for a coffee or lunch or phone call.

It’s actually quite a big step for most women because they believe that it’s the man who has to make the first move. It’s my job as a coach to be like no art that may have worked in the fifties and sixties, this is the year 2021. The rules have changed and you can go up and be like, and be proactive and then the, and then now the goal is to keep up with this process, right? It’s not a linear process. Some women progress faster than others, but the goal is to now keep, identifying sticking points, develop skills and make forward progress towards the ultimate goal, which could be getting into a relationship.

Joel:  I think for me, the hardest point would be getting clear on what you really want because I think it sounds easy, but it is, probably the biggest hurdle to me at least. And obviously you, you might have a different opinion and seeing through your coaching, you might have seen something different, but for me, at least it seems like the biggest challenge, like getting really clear about what you want.

Like, do you want, like, do you really, really want a three-bedroom mansion, the 3.4 kids, you know? I think that your process is, is amazing because we all think that we all want the same thing, but when we dig deep, we realized actually that stuff doesn’t really matter to me all that much, or maybe it really does.

I don’t know. I guess working backwards from that, so can you, how do you because I think people give that stock answer. Oh yes. I wanted a big house. I want a family, but I think, you know, because we have such societal pressures on us, like, especially with women, they must have kids.

Right. That seems to be a common theme in society, but probably a lot of women there probably, and I’m just kind of speaking from my own experience and you have obviously a lot more experience in this than I do, but how do you get deep into what they want and find out what their true nature actually is?

Aaron: One thing I’ve found with women is that a lot of them know what they don’t want. They asked me very clearly. I’ve heard so many women say, no, I’m very clear on what I don’t want. So I usually start from, from, from, from there, I was like, okay, fine. You seem so clear on what you don’t want. Let’s start with that.

So let’s build that list. She says I don’t want to a guy who lives with their mother. Simple. You start from there. I don’t want a guy who does not work. So now we’ve got some clarity and now sometimes it’s the opposite of what they don’t want. Okay, fine. You don’t want a guy who lives with his mother but it us fine if he lives with roommates then they’re like, no, we don’t want that. And then, okay. So what do you want? And then they say, okay, fine. I want a guy who lives on his own right now. We got more clarity on that. And now we could definitely go deeper. You want a guy who’s renting or a guy who has a mortgage.

So you can go deeper and deeper and deeper. Yes. I do want a guy who has a mortgage that will be paid off in 40 years. You could go. So that’s a good way of doing it and just try to flip what they don’t want into what they do want. And I haven’t found that. The role of a court is to hold that space for them to just think out loud, right?

And once they get on that, on that floor of verbalizing, then I just keep on going deeper and deeper and deeper until they have a strong emotional response. And then we know that they’ve reached sufficient clarity on that point. We do this with health career finances, vision, hobbies, fitness travel, the major parts of life. We go through the list and figure out what they want in, in all of those major areas.

Joel: I think that’s amazing. I think this is a good segue. When I was doing some research for this podcast I came across another interview where you had to go through that same process where you were working with a coach and they were saying and you were saying yes to all these social engagements that you didn’t really care about and you weren’t being true to your own feelings.

And so I think the saying no to what you don’t want is super powerful. And it doesn’t matter if you’re an entrepreneur or any anyone saying no to what you don’t want is, just like I said, super powerful and it really, like you said, it clears the space to get what you want. So can you talk about your journey in, in saying no and the power that gave you.

Aaron: So my, my journey about saying, no, I will limit for now to dating because at the same, it is yeah. Oh, for our a bit of a quick background about my journey towards becoming a dating coach. I had my first relationship at 31 years old, so very late compared to any standards. And I think a society sees the signal as being bad because saying no means that you’re being selfish. Right. And being selfish is frowned upon because you know, we as human beings we want to be generous.

Right. Which means saying yes, and yes and yes. And not saying no until, in my case you say yes to. It wasn’t just what I did not want, it was what I could get. So those two things are like, close dozens, people settle for what they can get. Right? So in my social circle and through the avenues that I was using, I meet women on dates.

They were certain matches that I didn’t really feel it right. And not feel it. I was like, yes, you’re a great friend, but I don’t want to do, to take this further into dating, but I would fall into that trap multiple times. Right. I’d be okay, fine cheesier. And she seems friendly. Let’s keep.

Hanging out with that.  And now you’re in this space where you’re not sure if you’re just being friends or if there’s something more, but to me it was just the matter of its award. I could get another way fine. She’s here. She’s not feeling threatened by me. She doesn’t think that I’m, some creep, but just to keep that going, because it felt better than not having anything.

I wouldn’t say wasted, but my ability to not say no to what I could get and what was easily accessible, it really meant that I didn’t make use of a big chunk of my twenties. That’s when 30. I was thinking about this clearly is not working. I have to do raise my standards and that then led me to my coach and then the whole, the standard of saying no to what you don’t want, even when it’s fairly easy to get.

Joel: And so what did that clear the way for you?

Aaron: the way in terms of social space and in terms of just time? I mean, if you’re going to do to say yes to things that you just can get, but you don’t really want it’s time. It’s time to dress up. It’s time to actually go somewhere. It’s time to actually really talk.

And you’re investing your mental and emotional. The energy, which are not, which, resources that you get depleted. Right. So if you’re investing so much of your time and energy into meeting a date that, you know, will never go beyond just friends that takes away from investing that same time into meeting someone who could be 10 times more.

Joel: And so can you talk a little bit about how you got, how you got started into the profession? Because like I said, I don’t know much about the profession. I don’t really know any dating coaches. So what drew you to the profession and how did you get started?

Aaron: I got started by first hiring my own coach. When I turned 30 I was like I haven’t got the results that I wanted and now I do want to get the results. So I hired this coach. His name is Allen Roger Terry based in the U.S. And I’ve been following his work for some time, but he was extremely provocative, right. He was that one coach, which went completely against conventional advice.

And I was like, you know what? I’ve followed the traditional and conventional coaches. I haven’t tried him and he seems you seem super provocative and edgy, but let’s give him a goal. So that was my first start, for a few months of Skype coaching with them. I know I started seeing results.

I started feeling way. But are you saying that, Oh, I felt way better. I’m sharing what I wanted pretty much on the first date. Right. And those were like very new things for me to actually share, you know, I want to now date and I don’t want to commit yet and saying that on the first date I was, it was very new to me.

So once I started the transforming, I think, women, in my social circle picked up that I was doing something different and through my journey, Go onstage. Right. I used to use a examples of this coaching session that I had with my coach, so that, you know, I was pretty public about hiring a dating coach, which you don’t hear many men say you actually working with guts. So I think that building up a trust in women for them to come to me now to be like, Hey, I need to ask you a question.

I met this guy and blah, blah, blah, what’s next?  And this, kept on, on happening pretty regularly. Right? So every month I’d say since the August or September of 2017 every month, I’d have one, one woman from my social circle. They come up to me and be like, you know what? We need your help and you help, let’s sit for coffee and the end, then they go into it.

Or we have this guy, or we met this guy or I’ve been single for so long. And I want to teach that. And then I think it was in the, it was, early 2019 and one of my friends said, you know what? You actually give very good dating, advice.  I want to pay you. So she just said, yeah, it’s more money. You actually saved me a lot of time. And you, you clear up some confusion. so Andrea was just like 50 bucks, but. You know, to me, I stopped now. She voluntarily paid me, which is quite rare. So that was the one I was like, this could be something that I could commit to.

It was the fall of 2019 when the sales contract and just abruptly ended. And I was like, what’s next? I was like, Oh, you what’s next might be just becoming a dating coach for women. That’s how, that’s how I got started on this path. red was first hiring a coach for my own life. And then seeing women respond to that them seeing me transforming me, getting that first relationship and the friend who paid me. And then now we reach this point where it’s my main business focus.

Joel: And so what is the difference between women and men in terms of dating and why did you choose to focus solely on women?

Aaron: So, one reason why I focused, first, I will respond to the put the question on why I focus on women and then I’ll respond to the main differences. So my coach is exclusively a coach format, right? So he focuses mainly on men and his method. He spent decades to actually perfect it and he wants to train his coaches.

And to me, it seemed fair that I actually invest in his grinning. So is, he won’t be ready to train men in his method for at least the next year. So to me, I was like I will just refer men to him. So that’s the agreement that we reached. I was like, I want to coach men. I will refer them to him because he is now he’s been doing this for the past late.

Yes, he has way more. He has way more experience quoting that. So we did that. And then I was like, not I’ll stick with the women because they’ve been. They’ve been coming to me because I would have never thought I would have reached this point doing this work. But as I saw women getting results with my advice, I said, why not?

So that’s why I focus on women. But the future goal is to coach both men and with a woman. Okay. And now it comes to the differences. Some men are often told to be the ones who need to be more proactive. You have to go approach, approach, get rejected, get rejected, rejected.

That seems to be the standard moral until the one says yes. And you don’t know how long that is going to take. And so the one very conventional difference is that the woman wait for the man to come to do her work. I’ve found that in the ones, in the relationships that I’ve had, that I’ve seen to be successful in my own personal experience, the woman is, is as much or sometimes even more proactive in that initial stage.

And that was quite a startling to me, is that the best matches are where it’s more 50 50 is that the woman shows signs of interest and not just but quite. actively in showing the man that she wants to take this further in the romantic direction. Yeah. So that’s one difference that I was pleasantly surprised to uncover is that in the best matches, it’s more a 50, 50.

Joel: Interesting. And so how, I mean dating life, I have a cousin who’s single and dating life has changed drastically with COVID because you can’t obviously, or you’re not supposed to, in many cases, not supposed to see anybody outside your household. So what sort of advice would you give to somebody who’s dating now that we’re in COVID times?

Aaron: Yeah. So my first one is wherever you are definitely obey the restriction routes you’re at. So that’s step one because I mean, we really need to respect it and what it can do, but there have been a lot of benefits because I have been quite active on the dating sites myself during the past 12 months.

And I would say, leverage it to your benefit. I think, phone calls definitely, pick up the phone to get to know someone. I think phone calls are great at preventing. Distractions because it’s just voice device. You don’t have to animate your whole, physical self. So I think, practice getting to the point, right?

I think one of my favourite questions to ask a woman on the phone is what do you want, what do you want? You’re on this site and you’ve mentioned these things on your profile. She has some more, she has some more specifics and this is what I tell my clients do, ask the man what he wants within the first five minutes.

Don’t think that you need to build up this whole buffer of fluffed dog now about work, about travel, about this, about that. I mean, you just end up wasting so much time. So, use this chance now that you’re home to develop your conversational skills, build some courage by asking the very important questions and if you’re more comfortable using zoom or Skype for a virtual day, but you have to see them on video do that.

Yeah. And one thing that most people don’t use enough is virtual speed dating. That’s actually a great way to actually meet like six to eight singles in the span of. 60 minutes. And you know, the, the speed date is just five to six minutes long, but it’s a great way to meet a bunch of new people who are there for the purpose of daily.

Joel: Well, yeah, I didn’t think about that, but that’s good advice. Yeah. And how about with, entrepreneurs? So, you know, work is, is so, you know, it’s involved and they’re so much in there building their business and they’re working long hours. What advice would you give to entrepreneurs who still want to build the business, but are also trying to date and find a life partner?

Aaron: I would say first, give some deep thought about your journey. Say five to Dennis. Right. And just think about what you want. So think deeply because you can end up regretting putting so much time into your business and having a very unbalanced and unfulfilling life.

If now you spend five to 10 years putting so much time into your business, and then you’ve had this beautiful, important part of our lives. Our happiness, our emotional health sex, depends so much on having these romantic partners. And I’ve found that they really help balance out and help us make better decisions in our businesses because we just feel better.

Right. And we have to we have to manage our time better because we cannot spend, 12 to 16 hours per day for a years when you have a up. So I really think that or entrepreneurs need to have a very good response to why they don’t want a partner, which is not the standard. I don’t have time for it.

I think that’s a very lazy response. That’s it’s cliche. It’s lazy. It’s a response which does not get you so far. And from what I have seen those ones. Tend to not have long-term sustained success. They burn out, right? They one, not because relationships are a very key and foundational part of our lives, right?

It’s a similar to health. I mean, word Han entrepreneurs say that you know what? I just wanted to not focus on my health and fitness for the next five years. It just makes no sense. It makes no sense. You wouldn’t ignore your health for the next five years because you have so much time to report into your business.

Just seems so ridiculous. Right? And so to me, saying that Nope, for, the next one to five or 10 years, you don’t want to focus on a relationship. It sounds as ridiculous as saying that you don’t want to focus on your health and fitness for the same amount.

Joel: And I think going back to the question about asking what you want, like in the first date, or, you know, like in the first couple minutes of talking to somebody, I think that’s really key because it really does get to the heart of the matter.

I’m curious when you ask that question are people taken back by it? Because I think we are used to as a society to the small talk about, yeah. Talking about the weather for the first five minutes and I’m talking about sports teams, right. So have you had real good success with that question?

Aaron: That’s, there’s a two-part response to that. So the, the first one is that making a significant change to how you did. It is a scale, right? So the first this took me a good one year, right? A good one year to develop the skill of being able to change my entire dating, the strategy. So play for the first three months, the first three to four months off those four months, I was pretty bad.

Right. It takes practice. So for the first, three to four months, I’d be like, Hey, know what, what do you want? And then like, and there’ll be like, there’ll be this, this pause, right. You’d be like, Oh, this is you. You would not feel it. He’s like, Oh, this is just so. A brat, right? Cause no, like, I’ll just like, transition to what do you want?

And then she’d be like, Oh yeah, I just want a nice guy who makes me laugh. I’d be super vague response for the first four months warrant that graceful. But this is fine because it’s a new scale, right? You have to give yourself that you have to give yourself a break, realize this is a very new skill and it won’t be that good, but that’s fine because now at, in the last three months of the, of that 12 month period, I was now much, much better.

So now, now the woman would not respond with, with this feeling of, Oh, this guy seems to be, really amateurish. Now. She would be like, Oh wow. This guy really knows what he wants. He already knows how to date. Right. Because now I would ask the question in a much more graceful manner. So yes, it will still be like five to 10 minutes into a first date, but now it will be a very smooth transition.

I’d be like, Hey, you know, what, what do you want? And, and then, yeah, it just was just a completely different, different reaction, both on the mental end. Emotional levels and now a very different response from her too. Yeah.

Joel: And so we give you a better quality answers as well.

Aaron: Because now I was owning my own space and I gave her that space to write. And this, you can, you only reach to that level once you’ve had that deliberate practice. Right. So this was before 12 months. Right? So now I could, could hold that space for her to give a much more thoughtful response than the.

In generic, or I want a nice guy who has a good career and makes me laugh. That’s right. It’s so vague. It’s so vague. but now, now that I could hold the space and sometimes I would, I would ask them for the question. So what do you mean by good career? Or do you want to date an employee or do you want a date and a entrepreneurial?

Because I’m clearly an entrepreneur and it’s going to be a roller coaster ride if, we date. So it, it reads, it led to much deeper levels of sharing very fast, which really surprised me. So the quality of my dates now, like 10 times. Better than at the start of developing that skull.

Joel: Yeah. You talk a lot about dating skills and I don’t I’ve never really thought about dating as a skill before and a lot of people acquaint dating with sales skills, and that’s the kind of person that we make a lot. Would you say those two skill sets are similar?

Aaron: Definitely similar in that your, I think conventionally we will be, we bought during and sales are seen as good until you get to the point, in terms of sales, right. And that point in sales, you get to the point of, do you want to make our, Purchase which involves your, your potential client spending money. Right? So sales is fine until you reach that point.

Do you want them to go from, to go forward with the sale or not? And that’s sort of the 80% of what makes sales uncomfortable or frowned upon is that decision point similar with dating it’s all fine, for, speaking about travel work, this, that it’s all fine until it comes to that point off. Do you automate on a second date?

Do you want to now go for sex? Do you want to, do you want to take that next step forward? Right. So those are the similarities between thing, and sales. It’s all fine until that the system. Yes.

Joel: The closing points.

Aaron: Yeah. Closing question. What is next? And you are very afraid to hear. You’re very afraid to be hear. No, because now, well, it’s rejection, right. And rejection is such a big part of dating that to be so afraid of someone saying no. No. Hmm.

Joel: I kind of think to kind of dig a little bit deeper on that, because I think that’s a good point because this just.

Hearing no gets easier. Because obviously myself being entrepreneur and hearing no a lot, it never gets easier. I still feel like that’s that sinking feeling in my chest of like, Oh, I’ve been rejected even though it even if it’s like a client, I don’t particularly want, it’s weird. It’s that feeling of, of, yeah.

Of just being there. I’m not good enough. Right. And I’m wondering if that gets easier with practice or if there’s a skill set you can learn in order to, to overcome that.

Aaron: I think we could do an entire podcast. Joel. Yeah. Rejection is such a big topic. Let me share a couple of things that have really helped me turn it on. It’s had so much so that when I get rejected. So now I’ll just, I’m limited to dating. sometimes, rejection has left me feeling better than, yes. And what change was, was one thinking about how I was getting rejected.

How do you get rejected? I found that when I wasn’t upfront and straightforward with what I wanted and say, I go on these three dates and now I haven’t told her my true feelings, what I’m telling you, what I think you’re up, you’re sexy, or I think you have a great mind or whatever as you feel when I, I haven’t shared that.

And she has sent that. I feel that and now she has brought it out before I have, right. So she says that, you know what, we’ve been on these few dates. I think you like me, but I don’t like you when she’s the one who, who makes that first move. Those have been the,

those have been the absolute worst because now it’s like no art. I felt like sharing my true feelings from the very first age. Right. I really felt good with that. I really wanted to share them with her, but I did not. So if you get rejected, because one, you knew what you wanted to say, but you delayed the saying it and now the other person has sensed what you wanted to say.

And now they have said it before, when you did, those are very, very bad. Right? So those, I would say, universally for men or women, whether it’s dating or sales, those are probably the worst because you have not exercised your courage to share what you want. So, and now on the flip side, When I would get rejected when I actually would share, you know what I think.

Yeah. Cute. And, I like you to meet you on a second date, like saying this at the end of the first date. And if she said, no, I would feel so much better now. Right. Because I, like I said, what I wanted right. Then of course it’s again, dealing with rejection too, is a skill right. Is a skill too. Right. So for me, the, the, the first times I would say it and I would get to reject it if you’re good, but then you do this a few dozen times, and now you’ve got out the scale now, like no more, it’s fine because I shared my truth.

I exercise my courage. Right. And you feel good now you feel good. And the person tends to reject you much more gracefully to ride there. They actually desperately give you a very good response. Right. They actually, they sometimes tell you why. Right. Because I think a big part of the sting of rejection is that we don’t know why.

Right. Exactly. Yeah. And sometimes he’s like, you know what? I’m just not ready. That’s it. So it might not have, anything to do with you. Right. So to me, that was, I was like, Oh, so that’s, one big one is how you get rejected. And then the second reframe was my relationship with rejection. Big one, because now I’m not just thinking about the act of getting rejected.

It was what, what is my relationship with this thing called rejection? Right. So, I’ve done, a lot of journaling and to me, I now see rejection as a very, compassionate friend. I was like the direction and says that, you know what? You were bold you are a courageous and your honoring someone’s time, right by being correct.

Right. So I see my relationship with rejection as a very compassionate friends, which is, is here to have compassion for me and the person I share my true grit. Yeah.

Joel: How you mentioned journaling. Is that something that you do often?

Aaron: I do every single day, every single day. I see generally is more a problem-solving tool more than a diary. Right. So I think, I’ve used it so much all I’ve used it to, to, to write down specific lines to use for, for first day

to write down a specific, right. It’s really great tactic. Yeah. It may seem dorky or nerdy, but, it helps, it helps clarify your thinking. And to me, I. Done this, with, even the choosing, whether I want to, to ask a woman out for a first date, I was like, do I want to ask her out for a first date? And sometimes the response was no, no you don’t.

So, I definitely encourage your listeners to definitely journal about like very basic questions and see journaling as a skill to everything’s needs to be a skill. So generally is a skill as well. No.

Joel: So I want to shift to Toastmasters because, as I alluded to that, that’s where we met. Can you talk a little bit about your Toastmasters journey?

Aaron: I’m sure. I’m sure you it’s. it’s been a bit, obvious on this podcast that I do have a startup, right?

I sometimes pause sometimes the words do not come out when I want them to. so I developed this Sarah, when I was nine, it was nine years old. So since nine, it was way more severe then. And from nine until 24, 25. so a good 16, 17 years, I really had a lot of social anxiety and this fear of dogging, because I would not give it a spring or fall, a full fluent.

The sentence right there would be like words stuck. So around 25, I was like, you know, I don’t want this to hold me back because I didn’t want to go into the world and, interact with human beings. And I do want to be able to talk to them. Right. Because we live in a social world. Right. So at that point I made, I made the choice that not whether I starter or not, hi, I’m going to go out.

Right. So it was this greater goal of going on and being more social. And of course dating was a big part because to me, I was so fearful of even going on a date because which woman would like, would want to date a guy who started. And movies, most movies I had, I had watched till then, steroids in

like seen as losers, right. We’ll compete losers. that was the what’s happened. I had of myself too. And then it was the King Speech. The King Speech was the first movie, which really, I really love that we’ll read was so beautifully done. And, and for me being a, a stutterer, just so beautifully danced.

Yeah. It was really short. And you know, our, started does not define you. Right. I think that was a big, lesson that I learned. And the same year that that movie came out, I also went to speech therapy in 2010, in 2010. And, and, and since then I was like, yeah, I want to go out, I definitely want to talk more.

I want to date more. And then I was like, you know what? Let’s take on a bigger challenge. Let’s go onstage. And that’s how I joined Toastmasters in 20. It was the, the, August of 2013. But of course I had been visiting Toastmasters clubs a few years, prior, but I finally made the commitment to join. In the August of 2013.

Joel: We talk a lot about fear before. I can only imagine the fear that you felt. Cause I know I’ve done the same thing, but I think that with a stutter it’d be so much more difficult. So how do you, how did you cope with that fear of coming from pretty much having that social anxiety all the way to talking in front of a large crowd?

Aaron: I think you, you know, my drift by now, Joel, it was a scale. Anxiety was a skill, right? So it started out with the, I would say the speech therapy, clinic at the end of those 10 days, it calls, 10 days with the 10 hours of speaking. Very, very slowly so that you don’t scatter. What do you do? Like a 100 hours of speaking. So slow you end up completely fluent.

That’s why I was completely fluent for the first time in my life. Right. And see, now, once I lower my rate, I tend to become much more fluent. So I will, I’ll speak slightly at a slightly lower rate from now on. Yes. So now this meant that I had some more courage, right? So now I would go out for more networking events.

I pick up the phone some more. So making phone calls, I was deadly afraid because now I, when I had to say my name, my name was, was one of the most difficult words to say, I’ll be like, I’m, there’ll be this long pause. And they were like, Oh, what’s wrong with this guy? He’s not saying since he’s saying his name then.

And then, and sometimes I w I would have to spell it out. Right. It’s H a R O and then. But that helped develop the skill of it. Fine. So what if I started? Right. So then, my courage reached the point where I was now. I had, I reached the point where, where social anxiety did not hold me back from going out to a group like those masters.

So for three years from, 20, from the end of 2010 to the, the, the, the August of 2013, I just visited many those, not those groups, like 10 of them. Right. Let’s go as go as a guest example. Now I reached the point in 2013. I was like, no art. Let’s commit to it. Let’s let’s give one speech, right? You could, you could get, can manage that.

You could give one freaking speech, just give one speech. And now I was surprised to learn that I was more fluent on stage than I was in, con versation the reason why being is that when they speak to themselves, they are mostly fluent. They speak very fluently because there’s no pressure. Right? So to me, my safe space over the years has been talking to myself, right. Because, that’s when I was, fluent. And now when. I am on stage. It’s similar to talking to myself because I don’t have to respond.

I don’t have to change my rate. I don’t have to go faster. I don’t have to switch words. That’s  one that et cetera, tend to do a lot is switch floods. Right? So sometimes I want to use a, the word car, but because I know that I will start on the, the what car I’ll say the word vehicle, right? Yeah. So now when I was on stage, I didn’t have to respond to someone speaking much faster.

I could slow down. I could use, exactly the, the words that I had, prepared for. So I felt really good being on stage because I could be fluent on stage and, and, you know, to that, that public speaking gives you this high, right? It feels good. It feels good because you have these people who are on your side, that was a big reframe that, and  is great because the people want you to succeed.

So yes, there were speeches where I did start out, but it was fine because the Toastmasters want to see you succeed.

Joel: What are some, if any unexpected skills that you got from Toastmasters? Since skills is obviously a theme of this podcast.

Aaron: Absolutely. It’s a big, I think a big life skill is the skill of receiving feedback and that’s a big, big one, right?

you know, that’s too, since we were in the same group, every speech you give is evaluated, right? Sometimes you get the feedback that makes you feel good. Sometimes you get feedback. Does that does not feel good. sometimes you get, critical feedback that feels good. Sometimes you get, you get great feedback that does not feel good.

So, so you just go through this, this whole, learning. Experience of how to receive feedback and how to discern the good feedback from the, the bad feedback. So that’s one, one big pot. I mean, it can use it for business and use it for dating. you need to get feedback and you need to learn how to deal with it.

So over the seven years or being evaluated pretty much every, every single week, right? Because every role and, every speech, yet feedback at a Toastmasters meeting. so that was a very, an expected life skill that I think has made me a much better overall person. Right, because we sometimes get on solicited feedback.

Right. And now I’m much better school to deal with it. And sometimes when it doesn’t feel good, I’d be like, no, that’s just useless feedback. So you become very good at this relationship between you and your,

Joel: what are some of your most favorite memories of Toastmasters?

Aaron: by far? The biggest one was meeting my first girlfriend. That was a very on. Expected, results. Right? So I won’t name the club where we met, because I definitely wanted to protect her privacy because we are not in a relationship any longer, but meeting her. I mean, she was my first girlfriend. the way we met the first date, the whole eight months was just a dream come true.

Right. So that was by far the biggest one. that was the first, another thing that really set me on the path of becoming a dating coach or women, because those masters, I was part of a few different clubs, right. So I gave a lot of very deeply personal speeches on dating and my failures. And, that actually works to build up a very deep level of trust with people in general.

We, yeah. You just trust people who are willing to push you to share the failures. So, that was the first one meeting her. the second one was a big speech I gave at the, the Vancouver convention center on October 20th, 2018. that was on the topic of honesty and intimate relationships. And, yeah, that was great because it really challenged me.

It jammed me on so many levels or just, working with a coach, getting feedback from a panel, right. Herbs or whatever we just spoke. About, giving your speech to many different crowds, getting really confused during the process, or I don’t know if I should give this speech. I had already begun the speech you have the feeling of being an imposter, right and yeah. but I was really. Satisfied with the final speech and there’s a YouTube video, of that speech. So to me, it was a very good real world result, right. To now it’s, you’re not in the safety of a Toastmasters room where it’s safe. It’s all good. Now, now this is a big crowd. There were 350 people there.

Right? So it was, yeah, it was, it was a very good real world result. Yeah. So those two, I would say my first girlfriend and did the speech.

Joel: Awesome. I want to be cognizant of time, but do you have time for a couple more questions?

Aaron: I definitely do.

Joel: You, you’ve done a, I think a couple challenges you did, your ethic gets a hundred Ida though. There’s a lot of Facebook lives I’ve seen on your, on your feed. What prompted you to do those?

Aaron: The first one was marketing. so, I’m sure you know, the challenge of, of marketing your product or service writing. That’s the 50% or more, one of the, the that’s a big reason why most entrepreneurs fail is because they just don’t take, take marketing seriously.

Right? So you could be the best. They didn’t go out in the world, but if no one knows you, you still,

okay. Sounds like someone, women need to know this. And the whole challenge of the Facebook lives was to share my best content through video. I was like, you know what? I have this time because I’m stuck home. Why not do these, these Facebook lives? So the main things I learned from them was one just, the power of pressing play, right?

Because sometimes I didn’t know what I was going to speak about. And I was ignored. I have committed to this challenge and to just as simple as trusting that I were to figure out. What reward to come through. And so some of my Facebook lives would be our word hit record, and I would start off whether, you know, today is, Friday, March 12th, super basic.

But then, you know, I would come, I would start talking, about something that that was irrelevant. Right. I learned a whole lot about trusting that a creative flow shows up. Once you have taken that step to do hit the real record button and not before. So you, so you could see creativity as has waiting.

Hi, you willing to hit record once you do, then I will show up and not before. So that was a huge thing. Yeah, that was a big one. And then I created so much content that I have at least five to 10 courses that I now want to create that will, will take me a few more years to, to get those, courses then.

Joel: Was it tough to be consistent? Because I think for me, one of the most, the most challenging parts would be to like, Oh, I don’t really feel like it today, or I don’t want to, I don’t want to do it even though it is like, it’s you’re right. It’s a pretty simple, you just hit play and you do it, but there is again, yeah.

There’s all that fear and anxiety. I don’t have anything to say. You know, it wouldn’t be too bad to skip a day. Did you have any of that come up or, or were you confident enough that you were able to just hit record and, and know that something would come out and it would be okay?

Aaron: Yeah. I think I had done a soul many 30 day challenges by that point.

I pretty much knew that I would make it through the first 30 days. Right? So, that was a part that I knew could be down because doing the 30 day challenges is also a skill.

So I knew that, some prior planning, so I had planned out when I wanted to get them done by, and they were a to-do list on my daily checklist. So, so that’s one, one simple way to actually increase your success is to just have it on your daily to-do list. Right. and for me, I made it pretty simple. I was like I to speak for a minimum of just five minutes, simple.

So as long as I speak for. Hmm, five minutes. That’s fine. Right. So depending on, on what your skill level is with a John is make sure to define it. It, it, well, right? So your brain has some specific measures to, to reach, right? And I will, once I hit that minimum five minutes, I was no way more relaxed because I had got the video for the data.

So once the first 30 days passed, then I was like, not, let’s see how far are we can go. And I went up to 109 days, 109 eight, because to me was pretty good. It was pretty good. And I stopped because it did not get the attraction. Right. I was only getting so, so, so many views. And has as many questions, from women.

so I was like, you know what? This is, this was good, but a big, a big bottle off down is, is knowing when to stop still. If it’s not even not feeling it. And if you want getting the bang for your buck or for, for your time invested, then it means you should stop and rethink what you’re doing.

Joel: I still like 107 days. That’s very impressive. So, congratulations.

Aaron: Thank you. Thank you.

Joel: Wrap it up with one last question. And this is a question I ask all my guests and that is what is your favorite book or book that you like to gift a lot?

Aaron: My favorite book, I guess, in terms of. Impact. Okay.  I could name like 20. Yeah. It’s a problem. I guess that made the biggest practical impact on my life was the book by my didn’t coach. The book is called mode one mode, one, let the women know what you’re really thinking. Let the women know what your you’re really thinking.

It really changed my entire mindset, my strategy of dating. It’s not, it’s not well-known, I’d be surprised if any of your listeners have a hold of this book, but in terms of having the biggest. impact. Yeah, my, my main one.

Joel: And what was, sorry? What was your coach’s name again?

Aaron: TALEN. Roger, Curry L Collin Roger. Great.

Joel: Okay. Yeah, we’ll link that in the show notes. Well, Aaron, thank you so much for being on this show. It’s was really a pleasure, so much fun to reconnect with you, so much great information, no matter where you are in your life. I think that you had so much good stuff to say.

And, so many good takeaways for people who want to reach out to you, who perhaps want to hire you. Where’s the best way to get in contact with you.

Aaron: I would say, the best two ways would be through LinkedIn or Facebook. I’ll send you the links to two, to both those, the profiles don’t have a website just yet that’s in the works, but my Facebook and LinkedIn will be the, the best ways.

Joel: Perfect. Well, thank you so much again for being on the show.

Aaron: Same Joel. And, I would say I would, end with the podcasting is a skill too, is one of my, my very first ones. I have not done many. So thank you so much for your invite and for your, your very. And thoughtful questions and for, for holding the space for me.

Yeah. I think you, you did that really, really well. Thank you. How’s it. Thank you for listening to publishing for profits,

Joel: please like it.

Aaron: Subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever

Joel: you get your podcasts.